ST Max von Sydow in Episode VII

I never said it couldn't happen. All I said is it would trample on what Yoda said and Luke's importance as the last Jedi. If there are other Jedi floating around Luke isn't needed to restart the Order.

 

Luke almost certainly is needed to restart the Order (or 'the other' Leia). So long as any potential Order 66 survivors remain in hiding or are no longer practicing Jedi, then they're not much use to anyone! Plus who is Maz? She is not a Padawan; that much is clear from the concept art. However, if what I suspect is correct about her character, Luke was an essential part of getting her to come out of hiding or at least to start being a Jedi again. And I repeat, these Order 66 survivors (or just her, if she is the only one) are not Jedi unless they choose to call themselves such. Once Luke got his academy up and running again, he would have been grateful for all the help he could get. Someone has to make the decision to restart the Order, but that doesn't have to mean others couldn't help in any way and that he simply did it all by himself. Despite this however, Luke is clearly not infallible: we learn that his academy padawans were massacred.

Anyway, this is going way off topic, so I'll leave it at that.

 

Just to get back on topic I'm going to riff on a theory of Darth Chiznuk.

The ST writers need to create a 30 year backstory to include as part of The Force Awakens. Knowing this I'm going to say that Max von Sydow could literally be any character. What do we know about him? Supposedly he is a leader of a group of forsaken imperials stranded by Imperial forces after the dramatic Battle of Jakku, one year after the Battle of Endor. Perhaps he was a Grand Admiral of the wreckage of the Super Star Destroyer. We know the call sheets name him as the 'The Vicar', a religious term that denotes service and authority of action in the absence of another, greater in a hierarchical structure. We've also heard the oft used 'Montross' as a possible character name.

Han Solo is nearby and in proximity of the Vicar. One of the earliest rumors on 'Montross' had it that he procures the lightsabre and calls Han Solo to let him know. We now believe he calls Leia who sends Poe on that mission. Is it possible Han calls and relays it to Leia, who in turn sends Poe? When Han finally realizes Rey has the sabre he knows exactly what to do and where to go. We can assume he's been in contact with Leia.

That said, what is Han Solo's back story? I assume, quite in tandem with discussions on the subject for a potential anthology, that the ST writers need to figure out this morsel of STAR WARS lore and may even incorporate it in the ST to a small degree. Since we seem to be getting a story heavily laden with earlier drafts of The Empire Strikes Back it's interesting to note that Han, in the Brackett draft, has a powerful father who runs the Transportation Guild and Leia tasks a reluctant Han to contact him and recruit him to the Rebel Alliance, if possible. Han is reluctant because he doesn't see eye to eye with his father.

Other pieces of Han lore include the idea that he was an Imperial Cadet who abandoned his call to duty at the Imperial Academy because of the mistreatment of a certain Wookiee: Chewbacca's life debt. Lucas had concept art rendered for Revenge of the Sith that showed an orphaned Han raised on Khyshyyyk by Wookiees. Lucas abandoned the Tarzan of the Apes idea and thankfully so.

How might Han's past be configured now? I would stick with the first piece of Solo lore and abandon the second. I could see Han's father being a great man. A military and strategic tactician. An admiral in the Imperial Navy. One who Han, after following in the paths of his father at the Imperial Academy, rebelled against in the end. At a certain age Han finds the values and strictures of his father's worldview anathema to his own and strikes out on his own. I like this configuration because in a funny way it echos Jim Morrison's story.

So what has this to do with The Force Awakens? Well Han finally contacts his father and they reconcile after his father realizes the Empire had forseaken him and his crew on Jakku. He helps to colonize the planet and becomes the de facto leader. After the academy massacre Rey is taken to Jakku (a safe and unknown system) and is hidden from the Seven and the First Order. Role crawl and begin the film. Spitballs, folks. That's all.

 

Some interesting ideas and I appreciate how you don't simply write Max off should he be an Imperial. Refreshing.

 

I would like his role in TFA to be similar to his role as King Osric in Conan the Barbarian. That role was brief yet had great dialogue, superbly acted, and was quite important to the overall story.

 

I absolutely love that monologue!! Such great impact with little screen time that is exactly what I want from max in TFA. Since he's rumored to be in the beginning of the first act I hope he sets the stage with great dialogue as we re enter the GFFA.

 

That's a perfect example of why one would get a great actor like Von Sydow for such a small part. He makes even a few seconds memorable.

 

"There comes a time, thief, when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, when the throne room becomes a prison, and all that is left is a father's love for his child".

-King Oscric

I'm expecting a line from Max in TFA that has as heavy an impact and as classically delivered.

 

Nice ideas Immortiss

 

Maybe Jakku and its inhabitants are JJ's tribute/inside joke to LOST. MVS is the admiral of that downed Super Star Destroyer, and after the battle a small number of survivors were left to defend themselves on the planet as the war moved on to other fronts and the First Order was like Yeah see ya, bye. Over the decades, the Imperial nature of the group evolves into more of a tribe with the Vicar as its leader. The tribe doesn't deal directly with the outside world, hence why Han has to get his cargo from the surface, but take transport up to the freighter to negotiate prices and leave the Falcon below.

 

If Rey is a Skywalker or Solo, I'm not sure I could buy into him being an ex Imperial officer. Finn for all we know is a low level stormtrooper who would be less loyal to the Empire/First Order than a high ranking military officer would be, you'd think. A lowly private going AWOL due to philosophical differences is much more believable than a general doing the same.

If Rey is not a Skywalker or Solo, then I suppose anything is possible.

He's probably a retired Rebel officer, or maybe even someone that was never actually in the movies like a relative of Bail Organa or something.

 

Some will like me. Then again, I'd be totally fine with him still being Imperial as well. Unlike it seems the majority, I don't think 'Imperial' is spelled 'awful' or 'evil'. A person can be an Imperial and still have morals and standards.

 

If you look back at the aftermath since WWII there has been an equivalent debate about certain German's being loyal and patriotic rather than being Nazi's.

The now accepted account of Erwin Rommel as a patriot whose loyalty to his country was without question and led to his death by his fellow countrymen who's ideals followed a psychopath.

 

Good. I don't think being part of a system equals being without standards in all cases. Nazi, Imperial, or otherwise. Painting groups with the same black or white brush is dangerous folly and happens entirely too often.

 

king osric: "What daring! What outrageousness! What insolence! What arrogance!... I salute you."

 

Conan the Barbarian is a great film.

 

No they don't. We just just can't see the bigger picture - it could be down to the simple idea that Yoda and Kenobi don't accept that Ashoka, Ezra and Kanan are true Jedi / because they are strong enough to take on Vader so the "certain point of view" is used to motivate Luke / or the dozen or so other reason that we simply haven't thought of.

Just because you can't see an alternative, doesn't mean there isn't an alternative.

 

Yeah, Force-Sensitive doesn't have to equal 'Jedi' and never mind even the CPV nonsense.

 

It is only "nonsense" if it isn't your point of view

 

If the Rebels guys (K+E+A) were alive at the time then why did they stop helping the Rebels? Seems likely they will all die but that's pretty dark for this kind of show

 

Who says they stopped?

The galaxy is a big place and their are many Rebel cells. They could be anywhere. The fact that they don't appear in the OT doesn't mean they are dead. It just means they don't appear in the OT.

And Season 1 of Rebels ended with a suicide, so it is already pretty dark, although killing the heroes is a little different.

And whether people like it or not, Yoda and Kenobi not accepting Jedi in Rebels as true Jedi has precedence - Ashoka leaving the Order in TCW. Filoni could simply leave it at and say Yoda just didn't accept them as real Jedi even though he was willing o give them guidance.

I don't think he will - I think there is another plan but I don't know what it could be.

 

Just because you're looking for justification to retcon characters into the story, doesn't mean Luke wasn't the last Jedi circa 1983

 

I'm not "justifying" anything, because this implies that something is wrong. I'm simply pointing out possible explanations for you to consider.

I never said Luke wasn't the last Jedi back in 1983. Luke was the last Jedi in 1983. Now, in 2015, he isn't anymore.

And Filoni isn't retconning characters - he is retconning the situation. Exactly like Lucas and Filoni did with Ashoka in TCW. A load of people up in arms over Anakin having a Padawan and she has to die.

It seems the lesson has not been learned.

 

So, to the initial point, for Filoni to keep his word regarding Luke's importance as the last Jedi, they need to die. If they are alive after Yoda dies then that is a retcon not consistent with Luke being the last. It's pretty simple.

 

Luke must have been pretty well known in the Rebellion. Would they not have heard of a guy with a lightsaber called Skywalker and thought that was a guy worth meeting and discussing Jedi stuff with?