May the Force be with you- A Paranormal Discussion.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Qui-Rune, Mar 5, 2003.

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  1. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    I have voiced my opinion of modern religions in other posts. I do not wish to debate religion, here. Rather to discuss topics of the paranormal.

    I believe in "The Force"; the energy that binds all matter in the Universe. Physically, we are part of it...that we can see. What we cannot see is the mental/spritual awareness that we are cable of sensing. We can't see our souls...or can we?

    Here is a true story about my sister.

    When she was 19, she was awoken out of a deep sleep. So abruptly, that she sat straight up and stared forward. In front of her was a small, sparkling orb of light. It slowly approached her and quickly sped past her face and through the window soaring up into the night sky. She looked at the clock. It said 2:32am. She went back to sleep.
    Later that morning at @ 7:30, we recieved a phone call from a hospital where our grandfather was and they said he had died. When my mother recieved all the papers (death certificate, etc.), his official time of death was 2:30am.

    So what happened? Could my sister have ESP? I have more facts to share about members of my family...this type of phenomena goes back a long time. The force is strong in my family.

    It is this type of phenomenon that I wish to discuss here. I have seen dribs and drabs in other threads, but never a true discussion.
    Maybe we can help eachother develop our mental/spiritual awareness.
  2. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    This kind of stuff happens all the time. Almost everyone in my family woke up at the same time one morning, in the 3 o'clock range. About a minute later, the phone rang from the Home where my grandmother had been, saying she'd just died.
  3. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Mastadge,

    I agree, I think this "stuff" does happen all the time.

    I also think that people need to focus on these things and help to raise their own awareness.

  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Focus on what things, though? Focus on waking up when people die?
  5. SithDooku Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 4
    Freaky Stuff Like that happens to me all the time. I've had dreams of things that come true, visions, ect. Sometimes it happens alot at other times I hardly notice anything unusuall. Most of my family on my moms side are like this so I think it something that I inheirited.

  6. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Sort of....

    What do you think caused this unconscious awaking in your family?

    That is what you want to focus on...this internal awareness.

    When your body dies, your soul or energy is transferred into a different state possibly or a different dimension. For some reason, the people in your family became aware of this transferrence of energy when a relative died.

    It's very intriguing.

    SITH DOOKU:

    I think it is inherent. In my family it was mostly on my father's side with the exception of my mom's father.
  7. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    The question is, what do you do with things like this? I have some slightly more troubling examples that have actually caused me to (1) rethink how I believe the universe works and (2) wonder how to use this info to make the world a better place.

    In short, my first weird and troubling experience was very like the one your sister had, only it was my super-evil grandmother that was dying, and I apparently actually experienced her death (I was convinced I was dying, at exactly the same we later learned she had died). I felt a sense of unbelievable remorse (it's heavier than that, but suffice it to say, it's beyond normal imagination what this felt like) for wrongdoings. Then, suddenly, as I finally accepted what a wretch I'd been and that there was nothing to do for it now, I felt this intense joy - but only for a split second. Suddenly, I was me again, not dying, everything okay, and I hadn't done anything that merited that sort of regret (I was 15). But ever since, I've believed that when we die, we know with perfect clarity exactly how good and bad we've been. Christians call it judgment, others might call it a sort of karma or enlightenment. Call it what you like, I have since believed I will go through this, and it causes me to do my best to atone as I go.

    My second troubling paranormal experience involved a very detailed dream about an "accidental" baby dying before it could be born to a former friend of mine - 15 months later, it happened down to the last detail. I never was sure if I caused the death, or if I could have warned my friend, or if it was my friend unconsciously wanting the baby not to live, and I somehow facilitated. It's hard to take responsibility for dreams, of course, but this one was just too weird, and still troubles me.

    My third really troubling one was when I had a dream about the other parent of this baby - someone I really didn't know - dying, and that person died a few months later.

    I have other "paranormal" experiences all the time - I see nothing paranormal about them. Most of them are neutral or helpful, but the ones where negativity is implied do get you wanting to take action to make things better. Then you face the age-old dilemna - what action will make things better?
  8. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Here's a question to consider:

    How are some people able to get information on a given event ahead of time (be it a few seconds, a few hours, or a few days)?

    It's usually clear flashes about something that will happen, except that you don't know it at the time (usually).
  9. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    My favorite theory on that, KW, is the hologram paradigm, a physics theory. It's almost impossible to explain easily, but it's basically The Matrix, except without any sinister machines doing it to trick us. Reality is a big projection, so the people and so on within it are not separate entities, as we believe. Therefore, if something is happening to you, I COULD feel it myself if I'm open to that. Likewise, if something's happening in the future or the past, I might be sensitive to that as well (because it's all projection, there IS no present, past or future).

    And this is all so straight out of Buddhism it's not even funny. The idea that you, me, the rock, and air between all of the above, is all the same thing.

    If we knew for sure this was the case, the only questions would be: (1) is there an objective reality that cannot be changed through altering projections and (2) while we're stuck in the projected universe, how can we manipulate it?
  10. Dark Jedi Tam Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2000
    star 4
    I?ve had my own experiences with visions, déjà vu, spirits, and the like. In the "Do you believe in Ghosts" thread I wrote about my little experiences with a spirit that had suddenly started to visit me. He?s still traveling back to me every so often, but I?ve noticed that his visits have dropped off a bit since I adopted a cat. Anyway, concerning dreams. I?ve had quite a few that have predicted the future, some are more cryptic than others. My most recent one that I had was about my horse Duke. Roughly a month ago, on a Monday night, I had this dream where my family and I purchased another horse. We kept oogling and awwing the new one, but in the background Duke kept trying to get our attention. However the family totally ignored him and behaved as though he never existed. Like he was no longer there. Even though in the dream, I could see him just fine. When I woke up, I didn?t think anything of it, other than how odd the dream was. Then early Wednesday morning, we had to put Duke to sleep due to a severe colic he had. It was only until then that I really understood what the dream was telling me. That Duke might have been physically gone from our lives, but his spirit was still lingering with us. That?s why he was always trying to get our attention in the dream. To let us know that he was still there.

    Strange thing? My mom has considered getting another horse too. I just wonder if it will look like the one in the dream.

    On a side note, has anyone here had an OBE (out of body experience) before? Lately I?ve been very interested in this and have picked up some books on meditation and OBEs and how to induce them. Interesting material really.



  11. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Treecave:

    Very interesting experience. It sounded as though it was very intense.

    I believe that these types of visions or experiences are more common than people like to talk about.

    I also believe as mentioned above that there is a scientific answer. However the thought process needed to concieve the answer is very abstract and difficult for some to comprehend.

    I believe in reincarnation. Not the religious experience, but the recirculation of energy. Everything in the universe seems to work in Cyclic motion...systems in cells, systems in our bodies, systems on earth, up to systems within the Universe. So I believe that certain peoples souls are "older" than others and these people can usually understand and recognize the power of "the force" more than people with "younger" souls.

    It may in the form of dream recognition or even a subconscious manifestation.

    Here is something that I thought of once:

    When people are in Church, they tend to have a sense of euphoria. I believe that if there were an apple on a table in front of the church and all the people focused on this apple with their minds using the same passion and deep rooted focus that they have for God/Jesus, that they could move that apple. It is theoretical of course because I think the people would have a difficult time deeply focusing on an apple. Could this be part of the reason for mass-viewed "miracles"? Could the onlookers hve subconsciously caused the manifestation?

  12. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    I believe in reincarnation. Not the religious experience, but the recirculation of energy.

    Yes, I always thought it very logical to assume that whatever energy we're made of, it must recycle. Even if you don't believe in souls, our thoughts and actions must have some sort of energy, and that can go a thousand directions when it disperses in death, just like our bodies do. Your body this lifetime, once buried, might become fuel which becomes some grass and daisies, a rock, some metal that gets turned into a stapler... your body doesn't get recycled as a whole, and I'm not sure your soul does either.

    My cousin and I came up with a theory once to explain in a non-New Agey sort of way why you feel intense connections to certain people, have memories that are not from this lifetime, and other weird "shared karma" type experiences and feelings. It's not far off from the hologram paradigm, but basically it goes like this. Let's say we have souls, and souls have molecules of energy which scientists may someday even learn how to measure and detect. You die, and your soul energy goes in various directions, getting recycled. Bits of it go into several newborn people - John, Jane and Janet, let's say. And other bits go into a field outside Chicago, some metal that gets made into a motorcycle, etc. John, Jane and Janet are drawn to each other because of the molecular similarity, and if circumstances allow, they will meet and feel a connection. Meanwhile, Jane drives this motorcycle she's wildly attached to, and John has this field outside Chicago that always feels like home.

    This is a goofy bunch of examples, but I'm just trying to sketch out the general theory.
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    . Reality is a big projection, so the people and so on within it are not separate entities, as we believe. Therefore, if something is happening to you, I COULD feel it myself if I'm open to that. Likewise, if something's happening in the future or the past, I might be sensitive to that as well (because it's all projection, there IS no present, past or future).


    Very interesting, and I think this is a natural conclusion to draw (and I think I've read this elsewhere as well).

    The leap that seems difficult to make is separating the flashes of knowledge from everyday thoughts. One possible way to differentiate is to ask if the thought came to you on its own, or if it was just part of a created thought process.

    I'd very much like to know how that information comes along.
  14. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    KW there was a whole thread on the hologram paradigm. I'll PM you a link to the thread AND to the article that started it off. (Anyone else interested? It's fascinating).

    The leap that seems difficult to make is separating the flashes of knowledge from everyday thoughts. One possible way to differentiate is to ask if the thought came to you on its own, or if it was just part of a created thought process.

    If I knew this, I could earn a living as a real psychic. It's very, very hard to distinguish a fantasy from a flash of knowledge, and after many years of practicing making that distinction, I'm only slightly better at it. And I have no clue how the information comes. Well, if the hologram paradigm is right, we all have access to all the info all the time. But why certain people get certain special bits... I dunno.

    I HAVE finally managed to recognize a certain feeling I get with flashes of knowledge that have come to me from other than my 5 senses. But it's tricky - I'll be talking along and suddenly notice people are looking at me funny, and realize there's no way I could know what I just stated. For some reason, I'm particularly sharp on political happenings. I mean, none of what I get would rock anybody's world, but for example, three months before "Election 2000" I predicted that the issue of states' rights would once again divide the nation, even if only briefly - and the whole dispute over the FL votes and which court should decide it boiled down to states' v. federal rights. And during that election, before the FL supreme court made its ruling known, I said the ruling was going to favor Gore but Bush would still win, which made no sense at the time, because no one knew it would go to the USSC and the USSC would tell FL that the states' interpretation of its own election laws didn't even matter in this dispute, which is effectively part of what they said.

    Please, oh, please, no one start debating about the election. This was just the most recent example of the sort of political predictions I get.

    Also, I've talked to a ton of people who had weird experiences before september 11. One woman says she was talking to her father around that day a few years prior (it was close to her b-day, that's why she remembered), and he was senile and suddenly said something about, "You'll see the shadows of the planes on the buildings...they're going to crash." Many people say they had a bad feeling for days before 9/11. I didn't have any feelings specifically about it in advance, but I had ALWAYS known there would be some sort of war on American soil during my lifetime, so I didn't feel anything like the level of shock most people felt. I suppose that was a blessing for me.
  15. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Treecave:

    I love that theory.

    That is actually more logical than the way I percieved it.

    When speaking of souls and the flow of one's energy, I use the analogy of blowing smoke.
    The majority of it goes in one direction but there are some swirling spin-offs along the way.

    KW:

    I often thought about that "thought process" as well.

    I usually try to analyze coincedences within my daily life and identify them.

    Read "The Celestene Prophecy" if you haven't already...it talks about this.
  16. TheGhost Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 2
    interesting topic.
    The idea of reincarnation, reality and the soul can all be traced to the Brahman Attman. Brahman is the universal cosmic one, Attman is what is inside of us, it is a smaller part of the Brahman. Of course Buddhists believe that there is no Attman, only annata (no-self) That is not true completely. I am Mahayana Buddhist, but I believe that all things have an Attman(this is a perfectly acceptable belief to a Mahayanna, although traditional Buddhists believe we have no soul, I find it easier to belive that we do. Mahayanna Buddhism is based in compassion and loving kindness, and it is easier for me to be more compassionate and kind if I believed that everything, bar none, had an Attman.) The soul does exist because of the electrochemical impulses in our brain which allows us to function. The first rule of thermodynamics is that energy(which allows us to function) can neither be created nor destroyed. When we die, the energy must go somewhere. Life is constantly being created and thusly, a person's energy or force can enter life which is going to be created and allow it to function.

    the idea of being psychic I do not agree with simply because the future is not set in stone. To say that the future could be forseen means that the future is already planned. if that is true, you can throw free will right out the door, because the dea of free will is based on the idea that the future is unknown.

    Telekenisis is an interesting idead. There were Yogis in India who could move objects with the power of their mind. Mind over matter is possible. Our minds are incredibly strong.

    Thats all I can think of for now, i'll post more if I think of any ideas. keep up the good work everyone!
  17. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Here's an example of something that happened to me:

    When my wife and I were engaged, we decided to have a party for both of our families so that they could meet. Needless to say, my anxiety level was Very high as I was working around the house and we were preparing everything.

    As I walked by a table lamp the bulb blew out. Then I walked by another lamp on my way to get a bulb and that lightbulb blew out.
    I blew out four bulbs during my anxiousness.
    Coincedence? Or was my energy level so high, it blew out light bulbs?

  18. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Qui-Rune, I used to blow out street lights, but only when I was meeting with a particular person - actually, the one involved in those two psychic experiences I described earlier.

    the idea of being psychic I do not agree with simply because the future is not set in stone. To say that the future could be forseen means that the future is already planned. if that is true, you can throw free will right out the door, because the dea of free will is based on the idea that the future is unknown.

    I think fate (set future) is just free will in a different form. The future is all the time becoming more set as we move closer to it, closing off avenues of escape from "fate" with all our free will choices. Then something happens, and we think, "Wow, that came out of the blue!" But in fact, it was a logical consequence of ALL the free will choices we and others around us made - only, we can't see that because we don't perceive every single one of those choices. Some are too minute, and others were made by someone else. But since we ultimately share a common destiny, everyone's free will impacts everyone else, and you feel someone else's free will as your destiny.

    That said, most of my psychic knowledge is not future stuff. But when it is, it's either a case of all the other paths having been closed off by free will, or else it's just a warning that turns out to be the future that actually gets selected. Maybe every daydream I have is a POSSIBLE future, and I only think, "Wow - I'm psychic!" at the ones that happen to come true.

    The future stuff I do get is rarely very specific. My election 2000 stuff is a good example: "states rights" is a pretty vague prediction, but OTOH, you must admit no one had talked about it a lot over the past few decades, so it was odd that it got mentioned as much as it did after my prediction.
  19. DerthNader Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2001
    star 5
    Oh, this is such a topic dear to my heart...I've had several rather strange experiences occur in my life, ranging from seeing at least two ghosts in my childhood, to a strange incident that occurred in my dream-state when I was sixteen, but it wasn't a dream because it was far too vivid and it involved a person who had been dead for some time and I had absolutely no emotional connection to this person, and he represented nothing from my psyche...I can say that I helped get to where he needed to go (I hope that doesn't sound like bragging, I was both sad and happy to do it).

    And Gettysburg...that place is like turning on a lightswitch, so much energy comes at you (Devil's Den and Little Round Top are particularly strong, though last year I had a rather terrible incident that occurred around Seminary Ridge, where I literally couldn't breathe. It wasn't until I left the area and was some miles down the road that I was finally able to breathe again).

    There is so much going on that the human mind isn't aware of, mostly due to the vibrational levels of being encased in a crude matter shell (borrowing from Yoda on that one). When you get away from solid matter, it becomes easier to perceive and interact with the otherwise hidden elements around you...of course, a person can also acheive this by letting slip their mind from its moorings.

    EDIT: I absolutely concur with what was said by Treecave about fate and free will. It's rather unfortunate sometimes, because afterwards, one does wish they could go back and reverse something that happened. (I do on something that still is extraordinarily painful to this day, and it's something I had absolutely no control over, yet I still feel I didn't do enough to stop it. But, in many events, there are greater forces at work than simply one being).
  20. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    I don't mean to Scully everyone here, but...

    Has anyone had premonitions that turn out not to come true? Or have flashes or experiences that never can credibly linked to anything?

    I'm guess I'm saying, I'm sure a lot of people had bad feelings before 9/11. A lot of people have bad feelings every day. Whenever a traumatic event occurs, you can always find people that had bad feelings before it happened.

    I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I guess I just can't easily dismiss the mathematical certainties involving coincidences, nor can I easily dismiss the brain's ability to manipulate our perceptions and memories to what we want them to be, post-fact.
  21. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Has anyone had premonitions that turn out not to come true? Or have flashes or experiences that never can credibly linked to anything?

    Of course. Sometimes you're seeing a possible future that doesn't pan out. Other times, it may be accurate, but you have no way of checking on it. I've also had quite a lot that I gave up on only later to find out they had results I never would have dreamed of.

    I'm guess I'm saying, I'm sure a lot of people had bad feelings before 9/11. A lot of people have bad feelings every day. Whenever a traumatic event occurs, you can always find people that had bad feelings before it happened.

    I admit this was the weakest example I gave - I only gave it to see if it would stir up any better examples from other posters. But apply your above reasoning to my other examples, and what do you think?

    I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I guess I just can't easily dismiss the mathematical certainties involving coincidences, nor can I easily dismiss the brain's ability to manipulate our perceptions and memories to what we want them to be, post-fact.

    You're assuming a fact not in evidence: that there are, indeed, random meaningless coincidences. Anything that seems oddly parallel, but to which we can find no point, we dismiss as mere coincidence. But just because there are tons of events we don't know the point of does not necessarily indicate they have no point; it could just as easily indicate we're ill-equipped to detect the point.

    The reason I bring this up is that the modern belief in "mere coincidence" is a particularly fatalistic view. Meaning:

    If you believe in random, meaningless coincidences, then you have to assume the universe is inherently chaotic, and any order we see has been imposed upon it - by a deity, natural forces, or humankind. If the universe is inherently chaotic and all order is superimposed, then no wonder entropy is unavoidable. God, nature or whatever was building on sand, and there's absolutely no point in trying to maintain order, because it's all just going to collapse.

    This may well be the state of the universe. If so, kill me now.

    I can't prove the universe has any inherent order, but since my complete lack of empirical knowledge on the subject gives me the freedom to believe what I choose until proven wrong, I choose to believe the universe has some sort of natural order and balance. Mere coincidence has no place in order. What we call mere coincidence is just tiny links on the chain of cause and effect that we can't understand.

    The assumption of coincidence is ALWAYS based on lack of knowledge. With no knowledge of barometric pressure and cold and warm fronts, you might think it a weird coincidence that the sky usually gets grey before a storm. Sometimes it doens't turn grey before the storm, and othertimes it turns grey but doesn't storm, so obviously it's a really freaky coincidence when it turns grey and storms.

    The coincidences we're proposing are along those lines - they seem freaky because we don't have an empirical way of measuring them yet. That doesn't mean there isn't a way to measure them, and it doesn't mean they're meaningless. It just means more study is required.
  22. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    I agree with TreeCave in reference to coincedences.

    I don't believe that the universe is completley chaotic, however I do believe in there is randomness to it's evolution.

    I also believe that understanding the universe as a whole is vitally important to understanding The Force and the topics discussed here.

    It is important to understand that all visible matter is made of elements on the periodic chart...just in different "combinations". These elements are essentially similar: protons, neutrons, & electrons just in different quantities (the atomic #). Now...the smallest known particle which is merely pure energy is called a quark. The quark is makes up most of a proton, neutron & electron.

    Here is my point: All matter in the universe (planets, suns, galaxies, tables, cars, humans, etc.) is made of pure energy.

    E = MC2 : matter and energy are interchangable.

    Understanding this really helped me to understand more about myself on the metaphysical level.
  23. Darth Dane Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2000
    star 4

    The problem science, that is modern science, has on conciosuness, iis that fact that KW is asking about. Where does my thoughts come from? If we are to believe existing theories on this subject, then yes the "force" is binding us together. If we can conciously get in touch with otherworldly experiences, like those with the death, then we mujst be able to control it.

    Mind over matter.

    The tibetans say that everything is made of Mind. If this is true, then through our conciousness and freewill, we can alter our perception and see auras, teh past, levitate. If all is one, then when you levetitate you are in a strange sense repelling the earth from you. You will always be in the center of Your universe. What rules do you want to follow?

    Conciousness is teh Divine spark, so to say(some believe this). To reach absolute conciousness, is to be all that is conciousness. And if the tibetans are right, then it makes perfect sense to Love one another, because whatever you do, you are eventually doing it to your self. The ten commandments are your own commandments.



    I personnally have seen a photograph(I know, I know) of a guy that levitated :eek: I realize it could be fake but it felt like the real deal, plus I have seen the coloUr green in the "aura" of other people.

    I firmly believe in teh force ;)




    DD - [face_love]

  24. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Good point, Darth Dane.

    One thing I try to practice is meditation. Blocking out the physical and focusing on mental state and awareness. It is very hard to do in todays lifestyle especially being a husband, father and homeowner.

    Im at a point now where I focus on the forces of nature...feeling the energy of storms, etc. Being in touch with your natural suroundings is very important.
  25. Darth Fierce Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2000
    star 4
    I wasn't going as deep as the concept of a universe in chaos when I talked about coincidence. Just the concept that... say you win the lottery. Picking all the right numbers is an incredible coincidence and the money it brings makes it that much more of a significant event. But if a million people are trying to guess the numbers, someone's gonna get it right, so really there's no coincidence at all. Although to the person it happens to, it seems phenomenal. Especially if the person had a feeling they were going to win. But so did most of the other people, but then when reality hits, their feelings are dismissed.

    I do want to make it clear that I'm not doubting anyone, just questioning. I don't doubt there are supernatural forces, it's just that the cynic in me thinks true representations of it are few and far between.

    I can't say for sure that every crop circle formation ever found is man-made, but the fact that man can create them so easily, makes me doubt that even a single one of them was made by aliens or other supernatural forces. Know what I mean?
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