May the Force be with you- A Paranormal Discussion.

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Qui-Rune, Mar 5, 2003.

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  1. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    And why don't you answer just what a neurologist is doing pushing a idea supposedly based on PHYSICS?!

    Because their is a direct correlation between quantum physics and the information our brain interprets from what our senses pick up. Light waves, sound waves and even osmic frequencies are all transformed into sensations. So an understanding of quanta is in order to understand brain function.

    And what Quantum physicists are perpetuating the theory?

    My answer would be all of them. I am starting to see the relevence of knowledge of Quanta and the HP. I also think that we will begin to see more mention of the HP in the scientific community, as well.

    The pieces will begin to fit.

    It is important to understand that science is "knowledge in motion". It is a never ending gathering of information. Scientific discoveries almost always become a stepping stone to another.
  2. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    "The pieces will begin to fit."

    Be careful. Neither you nor I know that for certain. They may, or something will be discovered proving parts of it wrong. Yet, science is not personality driven, so it's not about that particular scientist who was wrong. It's just that revisions are a part of the scientific process.
    Bohm does have some physicists who agree with him, but also a large group of critics who do not.


    "It is important to understand that science is "knowledge in motion". It is a never ending gathering of information. Scientific discoveries almost always become a stepping stone to another."


    That is absolutley right. That's why someone condemning NEWTON's views of the universe is forgetting that he was actually the one who laid the groundwork for scientists in the early 1900's to begin developing Quanta.

    The interesting thing too is many discoveries are made by accident while scientists are observing different things.

    EDIT:

    EDIT:

    Here is the interesting thing about Bohm's hypo: He thought that the observations of the protons themselves may not be connected at all, but that might, in fact, be a part of the same whole, a underlying order. He thought that was what Quantum had uncovered.

    The idea is reality and consciousness are merely a part of this underlying frequency or wavelength.

    That part of Bohm's idea is right in line with what modern physics tells us about electrons and photons "strange attractions" or connections. We really don't know if we are witnessing two different connected electrons or not.

    Electrons at times have also been shown to behave like waves, or at other times like particles.

    What Quantum does is attempt to assign a degree of probability to the behaviour so that the electrons and other micor-particles can be studied.

    Supercolliders demand such tightly-controlled environments because of the subtle changes that occur when observing them.

    The funky thing is this: Some supercollider tests show tht electrons have reached a barrier put in by scientists and have BYPASSED it. Now, how? Wave? Particle? Not a particle. But a WAVE.
    This is important because Einstein theorized that light was a part of a particle wave that "shot its atoms" out in groups, not in constant flows.

    This was the beginning of contemporary quantum mechanics.

    This is fascinating because a group of us had a topic in the Episode 3 PSA about "Force-ghosts". We had a great debate about symbiosis, midichlorians, unifying versus living forces, etc.

    Sounds slightly familiar.


  3. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    I'm going to bump this up because this has been a great thread but I think that the whole physics conversation is a bit of a stretch for some of us (my head is spinning ;) )...so I'd like to take it back to the realm of spirituality and the Force within us. Interesting thought...I have been doing some reading on the mythological model put forth by Joseph Campbell. It seems the same formula has been used over and over again. It's like these stories are floating around and are constantly getting recycled. Where do ideas come from for these stories? George created this fantastic story but from where did he get these ideas? Did he pull them out of thin air? Or is there a deeper meaning to all of this? Is there a cosmic connection somehow? I think I stated awhile back about the Hildebrandt brothers (Tim and Greg) who had such a similar idea to Star Wars it's downright freaky. They were working on their idea about the same time GL was. But because their illustration workload increased, they put their story on the back burner. (They also had plans to make a movie with it). Then Star Wars came out and they were understandably crushed. There was no way they could finish their story without it being seen as a rip-off of SW. What's interesting is they did the movie poster for the release of ANH... So, where do ideas come from? How can three people have such similar ideas? Has it ever happened to you? That's all for now........MTFBWY
  4. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    I've written songs, stories, etc., that end up out on the market by some established pro just before I can get my version shopped around for sale. It got so bad eventually I just gave up.

    Collective unconscious? Me psychically receiving others' ideas? Or do the ideas have some sort of existence of their own? Are thoughts energy? Can they have a sort of coherence, like an entity?

    This is a separate note, but I am so sick of all these stories having heroes, not heroines. Wizard of Oz had a heroine. Gone with the Wind had a heroine. Lauren Bacall, Barbara Stanwyck, and so many other women could carry entire movies by themselves. When did everyone from teenage boys to grown women decide they prefer drooling over heroes instead of Xena when it comes to the big screen?

    And what does this say about young men, that they'd rather watch Arnold's muscles rippling through yet another feature film than watch Xena and Gabriel kicking ass in leather lingerie? Hmmmm?

    :p
  5. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    I know, I love Xena and Gabriel, strong, butt kicking women. On the big screen, women are usually portrayed as the evil villainesses. Though I think Star Wars did a good job with Leia as a heroine. Even though men rescued her (Han and Luke), they screwed up and she ended up rescuing herself. She was always in charge. She was one of the reasons I liked Star Wars so much. I also liked Princess Fiona in Shrek, specially when she whupped Robin Hood and his Merry Men...that was kewl!

    I've had that happen to me before also Treecave. I come up with an idea and don't act on it and next thing I see my idea out there being marketed or whatever. Is it because of the collective consciousness and we are all really connected that these ideas are bouncing off different people's consciousness? It's interesting to ponder that concept but I'm too tired right now to talk more about it (plus fighting a cold/allergy ailment). Did you get over your bronchitis, Treecave? Hope so.... :)

    MTFBWY
  6. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    I think God just has a sick sense of humor, hates me, and thinks giving me ideas that come to fruition under someone else's name before I can get them out there is hilarious. :p

    No, as you might guess, my bronchitis lingers on. We're into month 3 now, and I'm becoming both homicidal and suicidal. I thought being bacteriacidal and fungicidal was the most rational approach, but they have not helped yet, so I'm trying out some other -cidals.
  7. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Not to turn this back to physics, but...

    There is a thought that consciousness and thought are forms of matter. Like matter, they are interconnected within the fabric of reality.

    Again, this is part of the holographic paradigm.....sorry Naccha. :)
  8. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    There is a thought that consciousness and thought are forms of matter. Like matter, they are interconnected within the fabric of reality.

    Again, this is part of the holographic paradigm.....sorry Naccha.


    No problemo Qui-Rune. Did buy that Holographic Universe book. Just haven't started it yet. I'll be reading it soon, and then I'll be up to par with you :)

    I do like that quote however, it's something to really dwell on for awhile. Gets those old brain cells working :)

    No, as you might guess, my bronchitis lingers on.

    Sorry to hear that Treecave :( ...maybe you should head down to the clinic and get some antibiotics. Or at least see a homeopath. I went to one for bronchitis and he gave me some drops (under the tongue) that was his special formula. Did the trick. I wish I knew what ingredients he used, I would pass them on to you. Hope you feel better...

    MTFBWY

  9. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    I tried to think of an on-topic thing to share, but all I could come up with was that there was an episode of "Designing Women" in the late 80's where a weird, nuts homeless man wins a contest to have his home redesigned...and his name is Eldon Ashcroft, and at the end, they have this big heart-warming moment where he says that he knows he's been a pain to work with, but he just wanted to prolong the job because while it was going on he could think of himself as something other than a bum. One of the women asks, "What do you think of yourself as, Mr. Ashcroft?" and he says, "I like to think of myself as Attorney General of the United States."

    The people who produce that show are rabid liberals, and John Ashcroft was governor back then, and making liberals mad...but he was never dicussed for Attorney General.

    Anyway, I find it not a huge coincidence, but pretty funny. So did the re-run network that played it the day he took office, apparently.

    Sorry to hear that Treecave ...maybe you should head down to the clinic and get some antibiotics.

    I did that earlier, and it made me worse, but now I think I know why. In 1999, the Mayo clinic discovered that most chronic sinusitis is caused by fungus, not bacteria, which means that getting antibiotics for chronic sinusitis all my life is probably a large part of why I never "outgrew" the problem. So I am now snorting every anti-fungal natural thing you can put in your nose, I'm taking some herbal pills that work to rid your whole body of fungus (similar in theory to taking Diflucan for a years infection)...oh, rest assured, I do enough research to qualify as a quasinaturaopath myself by now. :p
  10. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Qui-Rune
    "There is a thought that consciousness and thought are forms of matter. Like matter, they are interconnected within the fabric of reality."

    Huh?! This is shocking to you?

    Your thoughts are what? Nothing? When you see something with your eyes, or other senses, your nerves transfer what to your cortex? Energy. Now, what is behind the visualization of thoughts in your head? Energy.

    Your thoughts are energy.
    Energy, at its smallest level, is matter.
    We are made of energy.

    Next time you can, observe a room full of people. Notice the movement, action, excitement? That's energy.

    We are full of cosmic energy. We only use about 10% of our brain too. One day, perhaps we'll be able to harness it? Maybe.

    There is a Force! [face_shocked]

    8-}


  11. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Shane:

    Energy is the building block of all matter.
    There is a belief that thoughts are a form of matter. Not just pure energy, but actually a form of matter.

    But you are correct...energy is behind it all.

  12. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    In 1999, the Mayo clinic discovered that most chronic sinusitis is caused by fungus, not bacteria, which means that getting antibiotics for chronic sinusitis all my life is probably a large part of why I never "outgrew" the problem.

    That is so interesting, Treecave. I suffer from chronic sinusitis also (allergy related) and my daughter is always stuffy, though I do not take her in unless she's running a temp and then I wait a day b4 I do. Can you p.m. me with some of the herbal remedies you've tried? I would be most interested in trying those myself and for my kid. Much appreciated... and I do hope you feel better, could it be allergy related??
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Just moving this back up.
  14. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Does anyone else get the feeling we're headed toward a major breakthrough in the next few years? Like, a realization that things are possible that we've believed to be impossible for a long time?
  15. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    I can't believe you said that...it is so true. Something is happening, that's for sure. You know I took that class in journeying and my prof said the same thing. All who are involved in studies of consciousness, altered states of consciousness and that whole genre are on the ground floor of the next evolution of humankind. Right now, it's like a grassroots movement but everyday it grows as more and more people are becoming intuned with that whole philosophy. It's very exciting to say the least...

    btw...feeling any better, Treecave? Hope so. Like your new icon, though I liked your Luke one too since he is my fave SW character...Still haven't cracked open The Holographic Universe, but I'm getting to it :)
  16. GrandDesigner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2003
    star 2
    [[ There is a Force! ]]

    I find, personally, that the Force, loosely described in the Star Wars movies, is the closest to whats going on. It says to me that everything is connected and equally important.

    [[ There is a thought that consciousness and thought are forms of matter. Like matter, they are interconnected within the fabric of reality.]]

    Reality is dependant on your consciousness, oddly enough. Or if it is a form of matter then it's the only matter that matters. Errr...that sounds funny.

    Grand Ol Designer
  17. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    I can't believe you said that...it is so true.

    Cool! I was afraid I'd just been watching Reloaded too much. [face_laugh] (You know what's funny? When I first typed this, instead of typing "[face_laugh]" to get that smiley guy, I typed "[face_loaded]". I only caught the mistake when I previewed my post, which I normally never do! Well, I never claimed to be sane.)

    Speaking of which, someone posted a quote from the Wachowski Bros about how fascinated they were with "Buddhism and mathematics" and particularly the area where Buddhism meets quantum physics. So the next time someone tells you the Hologram Paradigm sounds too much like the Matrix, just tell 'em it's the other way around. LOL.

    btw...feeling any better, Treecave? Hope so. Like your new icon, though I liked your Luke one too since he is my fave SW character...Still haven't cracked open The Holographic Universe, but I'm getting to it

    I'm pretty much better, thanks for asking! How about you? And I love Luke the best, too, but I felt like going with an icon that looks cool and means nothing to me. Sometimes you just gotta do that, you know? And I still don't have that book.
  18. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    I was afraid I'd just been watching Reloaded too much.

    I've only seen it once so far. I do plan on going again only because with all the kung fu scenes that were slightly (Ha!) overdone, the story kind of disappeared. But there is something in The Matrix that attracts me the same as Star Wars, the spiritual aspect of both movies. And it seems, both movies were influenced greatly by eastern philosophies.

    Reality is dependant on your consciousness, oddly enough. Or if it is a form of matter then it's the only matter that matters.

    That's interesting to think that consciousness could be a form of matter...is there a link where I could read a bit more on this??

    And I love Luke the best, too

    I love the whole journey he takes. He starts out as some whiney kid and ends up as this totally enlightened Jedi. The end still sends chills up my spine when he throws down his saber...to me that is when he became a Jedi...to choose death over violence. I know some people were upset that he, as the hero, did not get the girl (Leia) but really he got so much more. He elevated past ordinary to extraordinary...He became spiritually enlightened.
  19. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    But there is something in The Matrix that attracts me the same as Star Wars, the spiritual aspect of both movies.

    I feel Matrix is SW for 30-year-olds. A big theme in Reloaded is purpose, and that life doesn't hand you one, you have to find your own. When you're young, like Luke, you just charge ahead with purpose, only realizing as you go "Hey, maybe this goal could use some fine-tuning". Once you hit about 30, you've gained enough wisdom to know that everything you assumed before is pretty much crap, and you have no idea where to go from here. This is what the characters in Reloaded are dealing with - they've got the tools, but they're realizing how little they understand how to use them. For me, that spoke to me as intimately as SW did when I was a kid and had no doubts about my purpose.

    That's interesting to think that consciousness could be a form of matter...is there a link where I could read a bit more on this??

    It's more a case of both matter and consciousness being energy.

    I love the whole journey he takes. He starts out as some whiney kid and ends up as this totally enlightened Jedi. The end still sends chills up my spine when he throws down his saber...to me that is when he became a Jedi...to choose death over violence.

    It's funny you mention this...I had some heavy thoughts about this last week when I suddenly realized that all the things I'm fighting in my life seem to be fueled by the struggle. Then I remembered Taoism and the empty path: fighting presumes there are bad things in the universe trying to hurt you, and more importantly, that they are more powerful than you. But if you're in tune with the ultimate ruling force in the universe - which I believe is a form of joy or love, of which our deepest joy in life is just a hint - the bad things can't win the war. Luke's "fight" is a perfect example: the Emperor IS more powerful, and Luke is about to die, but love itself - in the form of his father's love - saves him.

    I know some people were upset that he, as the hero, did not get the girl (Leia) but really he got so much more. He elevated past ordinary to extraordinary...He became spiritually enlightened.

    And there is plenty of time left for Luke to experience the aspect of enlightenment that comes from intimate relationships. And I mean just plain "intimate" in any form - not a euphemism for sex.

    If you study the incarnations of Vishnu, the two most recent ones are Krishna and Siddhartha Buddha. Krishna expressed his godly nature by having really wonderful, very personal intimate relationships with an incredible amount of people - showing us that our relationships to the divine should be as intimate as a romance or family relationship. But then Siddhartha came along and left his family to discover that the very concept of relationships implies separateness, and we are not separate: we are all one. We can neither be there for each other nor leave each other behind. We can only discover who and what we are, then let our attachment to that self dissolve away.

    That was long-winded, sorry. My point is that Luke experiences the Siddharthic awakening in JEDI, and I would hope he would experience a more Krishna sort of enlightenment through devotion and love later in his life. Apparently, very few of the EU authors get that you can still love people individually after a Siddharthic enlightenment: that is the nature of a Boddhisattva, an enlightened Buddha who stays behind in the world to help others reach enlightenment. And how can he do that without relating to them, intimately and intensely? It's my personal feeling this is where the Jedi screwed up in Anakin's time: you have a little club off Siddharthas, but aside from a few Qui-Gon's, you've got no one even approaching a Krishna-like passion for living creatures in general and individually.

    Sorry...I've been reading this stuff a lot, lately, and really seeing how it manifests in my own life. It's all part of the hero's journey, which we all inevitably take, no matter our intentio
  20. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
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    My girlfriend & I just back from an incredible seminar this past weekend that was all about the power of the mind, especially group consciouness & the power of belief.

    We performed what could be considered low-grade telekinesis, and what was new to me was the discovery that saying or doing things that are not true to yourSelf (like lying) actually have a detrimental effect on the body.

    Cool stuff, indeed.
  21. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    was the discovery that saying or doing things that are not true to yourSelf (like lying) actually have a detrimental effect on the body.

    I totally agree.

    I have always had poor health. I estimate that, in my whole life, I've spent literally one-third of my days too sick to leave the house except perhaps to get medicine.

    I have always been the most scrupulously honest and candid person you could meet. Do not ask me if you look good, because I will tell you. Ask me anything about myself, however intimate or embarrassing, and I will share it.

    Wanna know where I messed up? Morals.

    Morals are a lie. Morals are responses you give based on what you wish you felt, not what you really feel. I thought the way to be moral was to ACT moral, and eventually I would truly become moral. This gradually led to a state where every nasty human instinct - hate, jealousy, remorse - were all boiling up to the surface out of my control. Morals failed me, and I started being totally honest about my feelings, and doing what felt okay to me. I discovered that the only thing that can give you real, true ethics is compassion. If you can't stand to hurt others, you will avoid it 99% of the time, and be aware of it in order to make up for it when you do hurt people by accident or out of ignorance. Morals are just rules.

    Morals are obeying traffic laws, while ethics are actually making yourself a really good driver so you won't cause accidents and so you'll know when the safest thing to do in a weird situation might just be to break a traffic rule. Morals are saying, "Thou shalt not kill, except, you know, in war, in self-defense, in defense of another, etc." Eventually you run into a situation where the line is fuzzy: do you kill 5 people to prevent them from raping one person, or do you figure one brutal gang-rape beats 5 murders? Morals don't help here, but compassion does: I say kill the 5 if nothing else can stop the rape, because everyone dies, and our free will - what someone loses in a rape - is the only thing we have worth living for.

    So, long story short, morals are also a form of lying to yourself. Compassion is the only real ethic, and it's better you sin a little to find out who you really are than that you behave in a nice, poised manner and just keep the demons all bottled up inside.
  22. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

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    So how has your health been since this discovery?
  23. TreeCave Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2001
    star 4
    Not great. But there's a lot to work through. I'm still fairly early in the process.

    However, some other really interesting stuff has been happening lately. People responding to me in ways they never, ever have before in my life, for example. Good stuff.
  24. Qui-Rune Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Wow....I have been away from this board for awhile. Good to see so many reaching the higher plane of consciousness.

    I haven't been meditating in awhile. I have been giving the physical plane some much needed attention!

    But today I conjured up one HELL of a thunderstorm!

  25. alpha_red Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2003
    star 5
    I was once told that my consciousness--my energy, if you will--was at a higher level than almost anyone else the person had ever seen. The person is reputed to be a psychic, but she didn't run anything--rather, she's a teacher at my high school. All the faculty believes she's psychic.

    I don't believe that anyone can see the future, but I do believe that certain people have a greater level of insight into people's thought processes. Psychics that claim to tell the future are phonies to the last.

    What does this sound like to you guys? Does it mean I can shoot lightning from my fingertips and choke people over the phone?

    Please say yes...please God, let it be yes.
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