Saga Mega thread: Sequels and spinoff films and the overall saga

You need at least one lesson to learn that, and even then you can still fail, as Luke shows in that sequence. I mean you've seen the films dozens of times, I would assume, and heard their lessons about the Force. Yet, you still remarked, it would be easier to lift those rocks, because you can physically see them. That is why you fail..., and Rian Johnson as well.

Now please, read back your own comments, and apply those to Rey, who did not recieve even one complete lesson in Force usage, as Luke stormed off during the first one.

 

Ben also cut short Luke's lesson when Han said Alderaan was coming up. Which is a pity. He'd taken 30 seconds to master blindfolded lightsaber laser deflection. At that pace he would've been a Jedi Master by dinner time.

I'm partially kidding around. The discussion has run its course. Let's just all agree that the ST is awesome

 

Why is that? You can teach someone to do a basic kung fu move in very little time, against a wooden dummy. This doesn't make them a master by dinner time.

The blindfolded lightsaber laser deflection is an example of a very basic Jedi skill, as shown in ANH, and subsequentlty in AOTC. That's just the way it is. It's the Jedi's ABC's.

 

Is that what you thought when you saw younglings doing the same thing in AotC. Seemed more like one the most basic training to me, one they teach to the youngest ones before getting into more intense training.

 

Yes, instructed. Taught how to. A key difference.

He's been training with the lightsaber against the remote during the journey (which requires being in tune with the Force to begin with), while being instructed by Obi-Wan. The scene begins in media res, remember? Once he saw that Luke was able to block shots fine, he forced him to act completely on instincts by blinding his sight. Of course, he failed the first time. But after following and understanding Obi-Wan's instructions, he succeeded.

There are no double standards. You are the one ignoring the circunstances and what's been going on in that very scene in order to cherry pick it to your liking. It doesn't work that way.

You do know "one in a million" is a mere expression, right? And yes, that's a reiteration of a previous lesson Obi-Wan taught him. And Luke did it, he knew it was possible from before. It's the same as hitting bullseye in a dart board. Except he was doing it in a pivotal and critical moment with the galaxy at stake. It's the circumstances that make it important, not the feat. After all, he was doing the same "one in a million" shot against womp rats back on Tatooine.

 

Getting shot back at - and flying at "top speed" (likely much higher in a starfighter than in a skyhopper) make a huge difference.

As Wedge says in the ANH novel:


"Tell me, when you were going after your particular varmint, were there a thousand other, what did you call it, "womp-rats" armed with power rifles firing up at you? With all that firepower on the station directed at us, this will take a little more than barnyard marksmanship, believe me."

 

Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions?
Ben Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.

Ben Kenobi: I suggest you try it again, Luke. This time, let go your conscious self and act on instinct.
Ben Kenobi: Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them.

Qui-Gon Jinn: Remember, concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts.

 

Hence why I said "It's the circumstances that make it important, not the feat".

 

The point is that "bullseyeing womp rats in a canyon, in atmosphere" is not special the way "hitting something that a computer can't reliably hit" is (We're shown that the computer missed the shot at least once, when Red Leader fired with the computer's assistance)

Luke wasn't the only one shooting womp rats on Tatooine - Biggs was, too.

So, it's not a "one in a million shot" the way hitting the exhaust port with the computer turned off, was.

 

Sure but how long had it taken for them to get to that level? Weeks, months? Even a year or two? Also surely they'd first have training in basic lightsaber use before they start zapping lasers at them. Luke didn't have that either.

He wasn't blocking shots fine. He was still getting shocked. Then his first try with the visor down he misses once then nails 3 rapid fire deflections. At far greater speed & intensity than those younglings faced in AotC.

Also how did Luke know to try the Force pull on Hoth?

 

In the newcanon, after disassembling a lightsaber, he concludes that the only way the crystals within the lightsaber could have been aligned precisely enough for it to work, would have been via telekinesis, and therefore, that Jedi must have access to telekinesis. He then starts doing training exercises, and after a few days, he can move something tiny.

He's done it before - just not something as big as on Hoth. It's not till lessons with Yoda that he is told that "Size matters not".

 

That’s a creative retcon. Imagine concluding that the only possible method was telekinesis, & not some kind of Jedi tool. I’m surprised a farm boy from Tatooine knew what telekinesis was.

 

Anyone knows how to use a sword, but the way Luke uses it in combat, he's not been taught like the traditional Jedi and it shows. Luke is still struggling with using the Force 3 years later, because he's self-learning, it's not until he meet Yoda (meaning another teacher) that he starts to make real progress and his understanding of the Force deepened even more. It's not because he succeeded once that he mastered it, it requires time and training. The point of the exercise in ANH was to trust his instinct, to let the Force flow through him and not rely uniquely on his eyes.

 

The computer doesn't miss the shot. Red Leader does. The computer only indicates when to fire. Red Leader maybe reacted a second too soon or too late.

Even if true, so what? The point is that it's possible.

The circumstances are different. That's my point.

 

The different circumstances, mean that he's not "doing the same shot, on Tatooine".

 

Now you're being pedantic. The point is that it's a 2 meters wide target. It's possible to do it, he did it before. The circumstances are different, which made the enterprise more difficult. He wasn't in the middle of a space battle, there were no lives at risk and the target was not motionless. With the aid of the Force as Obi-Wan taught him, he could do it. And he did.

 

We still don't know how long it took Luke and Ben to travel from the burning sandcrawler to Anchorhead and from there to Mos Eisley. I'm confident Ben used every minute for education and training of Luke.

 

Fair enough. In that case we also don't know what Rey's third lesson was with Luke. The deleted scene is irrelevant & not canon. Perhaps she received an advanced course in lifting rocks. Or lightsaber use.

 

It would be extremely weird to leave out something as significant as one of Luke’s three lessons to Rey if it actually happened.
Therefore, I assume that it didn’t. Rey, like Luke before her, interrupted the training and stormed off to face her adversary.

It’s also worth noting that Luke obviously had no desire to give Rey any practical Jedi training, especially after she scared the hell out of him by reaching for the dark side.
He just wanted to convince her that the Jedi needed to end.

 

People are still trying to compare Luke and Rey's Jedi path as equal. Four years v. four hours? Sounds equal.

 

Unless I'm mistaken Luke refers to the last lesson we see as the "final lesson". Clearly we see that final lesson of the 3, & only one besides that. Which means he did give her a lesson that wasn't shown. If that's true the conclusion is that Rey received additional training that we're not aware of. We would only be guessing as to the subject of that training.

 

If he says “final lesson”, RJ is sooo disqualified.
Either way, my second point stands. Lesson one left Luke so scared he clearly didn’t want to see Rey trained in the ways of the Force.

 

Maybe it's a homage to Lucas who stated things in the movies then didn't bother getting back to them. *Cough* Sifo Dyas

It's just a guess more than a point Lulu. He saw Rey training with a saber & cutting the statue in half. Maybe he decided to sort out her saber use. See, another guess.

 

Sifo-Dyas was not something that needed to come back. We knew all we needed to know by the end of AOTC.

 

It’s not a guess. He says “I’ve seen this raw strength only once before, in Ben Solo. It didn’t scare me enough then. It does now”.
That leaves no doubt. He has no intention of training her.