Memo to George - An extra in a clonetrooper suit is 1000% better than any CGI creation

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SoftballWizard388, May 19, 2002.

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  1. SoftballWizard388 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    Dear George, I loved AOTC, and while I understand your obsession with CGI, maybe in 10 years a CGI creation will replace the subtle realism of a ***actual person in a suit***, but until then, you will save money and not insult the audience's intelligence by using CGI where it is necessary (such as Dexter Jettster or Yoda), and not for routine things like control panels and Clonetroopers. I had flashbacks of "Final Fantasy" right after Yoda and the troopers landed. It was just too obvious that the Clone Commander, and others in foreground were fakes. I love the background CGI, the wide shots, the vistas, etc. But when possible, closeups should involve human composites. An extra costs about $50 a day, the suit probably $1,000, and it would have been infinitely better than any Apple or PC-created wizardry I saw there!
  2. Fearless_Leader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 14, 2001
    star 1
    Memo to you, where is it written that SW must be more live-action than animation?
  3. Charlie_Martel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2001
    star 4
    Which clonetroopers are you saying should be real? One or two? Or all 2 million? :p
  4. GalaxyBlur Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    i liked yoda better as CG. he was more emotional and animated and they could do his duel without it looking out of place.
  5. Assassin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 2000
    star 1
    I for one actually was amazed by the Clonetroopers.....kudo's to ILM for further raising the benchmark.
  6. Cheveyo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 5
    SoftballWizard388: ...you will save money and not insult the audience's intelligence by using CGI where it is necessary (such as Dexter Jettster or Yoda), and not for routine things like control panels and Clonetroopers.

    Your intelligence was insulted???? You bruise too easily, Softball. ;) This is a movie. You know, entertainment? You shouldn't take things so seriously. That leads to the Dark Side... or at least a coronary!
  7. DarKnight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2000
    star 2
    Memo to Fearless_Leader:

    Since the OT was a LIVE ACTION film and it had actual extras in Storm troopers uniforms. Such aspects gives a film a more organic aspect. I did like AOTC but, I can understand why some people feel that such liberal use of CGI makes the film feel anti-septic.
  8. DINVADER Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2000
    star 4
    Most people thought the CG Yoda looks great, I talked to several people about the clonetroopers being all CG and they said things like "Are you kidding me? No way!"
    A lot of people kept saying some of those clonetroopers had to be guys in suits.
  9. ObsidianDeath Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 1
  10. SoftballWizard388 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    DarKnight, "anti-septic" is a word I should have used. No one who has replied to me has addressed the IDEA OF UP-CLOSE SHOTS and CGI. I never said the far-off or vista/pan shots using CGI were bad judgments. But when you have people up-close, and they are not of the Jar Jar/Dexter Jettster variety, there is no reason to use CGI if ****your goal is realism***.

    This example may be bad, but think Samuel Jackson and John Travolta driving together in Pulp Fiction.....sure you ***could*** film John Travolta in another state then composite him in next to Sam, BUT WHY????????????????????????????????????? I feel embarrassed to say this, but it would just be easier to (gasp!) put a real, breathing Travolta in the car. The lighting, subtle nuances, inflections are all there....and no CGI needed. And did I add it looks ultra-realistic?
  11. Jawa70 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 1
    he may be right you know.i've got a feeling this film might look even better on a DVD, on a smaller screen.
  12. Beannaeb Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2002
    star 3
    If you go in while telling yourself "THIS IS ALL CGI THIS IS ALL CGI," it will probably affect you more than someone who just takes in the stimuli and doesn't analyze everything to find the CGI and the real.
  13. Kelyne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 3
    Cgi is gonna be used more and more. If you really hate it that much.......your gonna be one frustrated person. This whole line of argument is so strange too me. Has anyone here watched Sinbad movies or Jason and the Argonauts. These movies have *today* some really sad looking effects, but the storys are still really fun. In the end I let go of being too critical of effects in favor of enjoying the story.
  14. SoftballWizard388 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    *Another thing* I love CGI, but it can only work in concert with real world photography up to this point. (Final Fantasy of course doesn't count).

    If Lucas used real costumed extras sprinkled among certain scenes, there would have been greater realism, because the realism of the extras enhances the CGI troopers. Just like when Anakin is riding that beast on Naboo, they mixed a CGI Anakin with real shots (falling, landing), and it works better than if it had been purely CGI.

  15. SoftballWizard388 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    <<Has anyone here watched Sinbad movies or Jason and the Argonauts. These movies have *today* some really sad looking effects,>>

    Kelyne, that is an excellent point. CGI is a necessary function of filmmaking, it is a TREMENDOUS tool, I'm not discounting that. But its effectiveness comes with knowing WHEN and *****WHEN NOT**** to use it.

    Of course, the warriors in "Jason" cannot be filmed without FX work. But if two people are sitting at a table, eating Burger King, what fool on this planet will argue that it's better to create two CGI characters than filming two actors? Again, **my argument is so obvious, it almost vanishes on itself**
  16. JdieKnight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 1999
    star 2
    CGI rules when used properly and when it is needed. Backgrounds, scenes where you need huge crowds and animated characters that require it is fine. That's a necesity and a part of how movies are made especially by Lucas.

    Regardless, most people from the mass public that go see Star Wars go see it for the eye candy so I guess CGI overflow is to be expected. It's just sad that nobody seems to tell Lucas that may be he went overboard on some scenes or may be he just doesn't care to listen.

    That's why the Braveheart mass fight will always be the standard. Real extras do little things that no computer loop/mimic program can do. People will always say "Braveheart-type of battle" and not "AOTC-type of battle". Hard to compare one thing to something that is (to me at least anyways) great but fake looking.

  17. Kelyne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 3
    From what I uderstand the reson CGI will used more and more in crowd situations is the amount of control you have on what the crowd does. I remember Mel Gibson talking about how hard it was too coordinate the battle scenes in Braveheart and how he almost had a nervous breakdown. The use of motion capture and cgi will only make even more realistic crowd simulation. I think the Clone Troopers were fine as CGI creations. As far as other characters who are CGI I think it just gives more of a performance then rubber masks. Imagine Dex in a rubber mask.....it would have been laughable. George does love CGI, but I think for the right reasons. In my opinion.
  18. Lukecash Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 4
    The Clone troopers were not totally CGI. For many of the scenes- a few people were filmed in the suits and the action was multiplied in the computer.

    And for all the vaunted "realism" of the OT...a majority of the Storm Troopers standing in formation were a Matte Painting.

    The really funny part about the people who complain about CGI use in the moive have no idea what was totally computer graphics and what was composited with models in the movie.

  19. KaaShamau Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2000
    star 4
    Are you sure there was a Clone Trooper suit. I'm sure that Bodie and Logan were filmed and copied (at least for the close ups) but I'm not too sure about a real suit...
  20. Kelyne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 3
    LukeCash, your right. I love the comments someone made about the buildings looking way too CGI........sorry but the buildings are still plastic models. Just like the OT. The only real problem I had with the effects in Aotc was the library scene......it did look like a bad matte painting. You can't win them all.
  21. SoftballWizard388 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    <<<And for all the vaunted "realism" of the OT...a majority of the Storm Troopers standing in formation were a Matte Painting. >>>

    LukeCash, yes, and even when I was a kid back then I couldn't tell it was a *matte* painting, because it was ***not a foreground, but a background shot.***

    In the start of "ROJ", Vader and Mof are walking down a row of troops. They were all real costumed extras, and very subtle motions (even though they are standing at attention), the lighting, the reflections, etc. are all there. Basically, they were real stormtroopers there.

    The Emperor's arrival had matte paintings, but they were slightly blurred (distance) and it didn't matter.
  22. KaaShamau Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2000
    star 4
    Is this the painting, or is concept art?
  23. Grand Admiral Reese Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 1999
    star 6
    Y'know, Lucas has a history of using trickery when having large crowds. Even back in ANH the final ceremony didn't have half as many Rebels in it as it appeared on film(a ten million dollar budget doesn't leave much room for a few hundred extra uniforms and the people to fill them).

    Though I can't see the point of using CG for individual troopers like the one who helped Padme after she fell out of the landing craft, or those who covered the Jedi in their retreat from the arena. Except to test the limits of what they could do convincingly.

    Of course, you never know, Lucas could've slipped a few real troops in with the CG ones just to see if we could tell the difference or not.
  24. bleh19 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2001
    star 4
    Bad models, matte paintings and puppets are ok for the OT.

    But, CGI (namely the clonetroopers), which im sure 90% of people here would say is amazing, is an insult.

    riiiiight
  25. DarthTomas Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 1
    No way! The clonetroopers looked AWESOME.
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