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Memo to George - An extra in a clonetrooper suit is 1000% better than any CGI creation

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SoftballWizard388, May 19, 2002.

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  1. Rupert_Pupkin

    Rupert_Pupkin Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2002
    The clone troopers looked fake!
     
  2. DarthObsidian

    DarthObsidian Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2000
    I like how in a thread of "too much" CGI people are arguing over what is CGI in the film :)

    Kinda like in TPM... heck, most of the ships and building shots were models yet people were arguing "i didn't like the CGI ships! they should have used models!" and no one noticed the scenes that were nearly 100% cgi like obiwan +quigon rescuing the queen walking on the balcony.

    :)
     
  3. JabbaPapa

    JabbaPapa Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2002
    Look at the scratches on the armour of the clonetrooper who helps Padmé : NOT CGI !!!

    Generally, the Guy in a Suit clonetroopers have more realistic-looking black cloth showing between the armour pieces.
     
  4. KaaShamau

    KaaShamau Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2000
    The fact that most people here can't tell for sure says something about ILMs acheivement.

    Personally, I don't think that any trooper in a suit is real.
    Close ups of Bodie Taylor (clones eating, dressed in red) were probably filmed and duplicated.
    Close ups of Daniel Logan (clone kids, dressed in blue) were probably filmed and duplicated.
    Clones seen as Obi-Wan tours the factory are probably CGI.
    Clones seen in the final battle are probably CGI.

    I'm looking forward to any documentaries that'll clarify this. :)
     
  5. mocha1

    mocha1 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2001
    Close ups of Bodie Taylor (clones eating, dressed in red) were probably filmed and duplicated.
    Close ups of Daniel Logan (clone kids, dressed in blue) were probably filmed and duplicated.


    -- gee you think?

    wow i thought lucas really cloned those guys! </end sarcasm>
     
  6. _Darth_Brooks_

    _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    I read a couple of years ago where someone on the set said there were people walking aroung in "stormtrooper" uniforms.

    I knew, before any visual confirmation, that there weren't any storm troopers and therefore the clones would closely resemble storm troopers to non SW fan actors and such.

    Sorry, can't give a reference. Who knew this thread would be around back then, huh?


    Anyway, that suggests that some troopers were costumed extras.


    The only scene where the cgi bothered me was the one with the kneeling trooper next to Padme after they fell out of the Republic gunship. That was obvious to me.

    And, yes, seemed completely unnecessary.

    Other than that the troopers were okay.

    On this issue of 'realism', yes, we want a convinvincing illusion, but where does the line get drawn? Ultimately, the SW universe isn't a real place. What may be convincing to one is not to another.

    Sure, there are things George could have done better. None of the SW movies are perfect.

    But I sure enjoyed the movie.
     
  7. Farrokh1

    Farrokh1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Personally Im not saying theres too much CGI, I know that alot of it is miniatures, but I just dont know why ALL the clonetroopers were CGI. Thats why i want something official, because one of the things that is putting people off CG( not me I think its incredible) is when it is used unneccessarally( i still cant spell that word).
     
  8. mocha1

    mocha1 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2001
    personally if i find out that they were all cg - more power to ILM
     
  9. Lukecash

    Lukecash Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 6, 2001
    Seriously,

    If the clone Troopers were ALL cgi, then ILM boys deseve an oscar for each one...honestly.
     
  10. dahveed72

    dahveed72 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 11, 2002
    I think its perfectly reasonable to suggest that anything that CAN be done with real actors/extras SHOULD be done with real people. That is if "as realistic-looking as possible" is your mantra. I suppose Lucas and others may cite expediency/convenience/expense/control as reasons to use virtual actors, but I suspect other directors would disagree.
     
  11. mocha1

    mocha1 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2001
    what i want to know is why the daytime shots of coruscant looked so fake.

    there were a couple glaring instances.
     
  12. Darth_Xio_Jade

    Darth_Xio_Jade Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2001
    "I did like AOTC but, I can understand why some people feel that such liberal use of CGI makes the film feel anti-septic.

    So you would prefer a more septic film? :)
     
  13. Darkwish

    Darkwish Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2001
    There were a few shots of Clonetroopers where it was really a guy in a Clonetrooper outfit, non-CGI.
     
  14. JohnWilliams00

    JohnWilliams00 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    I love CGI when used properly, but it does tend to get overboard. I think when nearly everything is CG, you can't tell, nor even care, if there are real elements anymore, because you are desensitized and used to it. But place a real element next to a CG one, and the difference is more perceptible.

    Here's a few shots from ESB. They do look much better than CG. CG suffers from that "hazy" blurry look sometimes. In AOTC, we get over it quickly because we become absorbed into that artificial world, but it never replaces a real gyu in a suit you could pay $5.00 bucks an hour, rather than pay $5,000 dollars for a CG shot.

    [image=http://www.episode-x.com/galleries/EpisodeV/Use/Use/Stormtroopers.jpg] [image=http://www.episode-x.com/galleries/EpisodeV/Use/Use/VaderHoth.jpg] [image=http://www.episode-x.com/galleries/EpisodeV/Use/Use/Snowtroopers2.jpg]

    It's alright to have a slice or two of cheescake, but not the whole darn cake, which is unfortunately the case here. I think a few real men in suits would've helped.





     
  15. Farrokh1

    Farrokh1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    "There were a few shots of Clonetroopers where it was really a guy in a Clonetrooper outfit, non-CGI"

    Which shots? None of the closeup shots were real. The padme trooper was CG, the Commander that yoda talks to was CG, all the troopers on the gunships were CG. If anyone has any pictures of these scenes they would be greatly appreciated.
     
  16. LUH-3417

    LUH-3417 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 11, 2001
    I am not going to complain about the flick, I loved it.

    I do agree though that CG should only be used for the shots when it is a must. Nothing, nothing, and nothing ever beats guys in suits for close up shots. I didn't like that Padme's trooper was CG, I felt like someone was trying to dupe me. I don't think CG actors should ever replace humans in close up shots.

    What would be the use if that were the case? We'd all be going to see computer cartoons in the movies. What about acting? Why do it? Just to say it can be done? So what! No offense to CG artists out there, but it is a tool and should remain that way.

    Anyways, I think the CG worked great for the battles, the backgrounds, everything. I just don't think that it should ever replace a human, even if it can be done.

    Those shots of ESB above me are great and represent the times in the movies where people should stay people and not cartoons.
     
  17. Drason_OBEXX

    Drason_OBEXX Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 13, 2002
    I thought the CG clonetroopers looked retarded. Of course from a distance it is necessary, but why not have about 10 extras in suits up close-- do any of you realize how much better that would have made those scenes look? Especially when they jump out of the ship? I have a thread on the Episode III forums about this for any of you who care to take a look. What fears me most is the thought of Lucas using CG for scenes with Darth Vader. I know many of you doubt it will happen, but I'm not so sure. I find it very likely we could end up with a partially CG Darth.
     
  18. mocha1

    mocha1 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2001
    but it never replaces a real gyu in a suit you could pay $5.00 bucks an hour, rather than pay $5,000 dollars for a CG shot.

    actually it isn't that simple, it's a lot cheaper for ILM to do CG troopers and integrate them into the shot (w/ proper lighting, i.e. the blue blasts reflecting off their helmets).

    the cost of the extras isn't the problem, it's just that having to composite them in, match all the elements of the cg shot w/ the composite is more work and more difficult to manipulate
     
  19. Double_Sting

    Double_Sting Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2001
    There are two ways to do it.

    1. One is to use the "old techniques" that have been used in film making.

    2. The other is to use CGI to do it.

    No matter which way GL chooses, there are going to be people who are going to complain and who are going to say that it doesn't look real and blah blah blah.

    It is really a lose-lose situation for him. He is going to get blasted no matter which technique he chooses.

    But I think he made the right decision to go with CGI. CGI is the wave of the future and ILM is one of the companies leading the way.
     
  20. Farrokh1

    Farrokh1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    Im all for CGI, its incredible, but thats not what we're are discussing. What this topic is about is the use of CGI clonetroopers in close-up shots. This is not a CG bashing topic. I want to know why there were no real actors in clonetrooper costumes. Prime example, the one that helps up Padme. If anyone thinks there are real troopers then tell me where in the film. There might be some in the mass battle sequences but ALL of the closeup troopers were CGI. Once again anyone got any pictures of the Troopers in these scenes please send them to me, thank you.
    farrokh_k@hotmail.com
     
  21. JohnWilliams00

    JohnWilliams00 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    I found this pic, and I think we can all agree this was CG.

    [image=http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/lmall/2_clonetroopers.jpg]

    I'll try looking for more pics.



     
  22. Kelyne

    Kelyne Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 25, 1999
    Come on....its like going too Spiderman and saying man....that looks so fake.....almost like a cartoon. Yea, so what. If it destroys your movie experience don't go. Avoid all movies that have CGI. I am so tired of this argument.
     
  23. JohnWilliams00

    JohnWilliams00 Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 29, 2002
    I'm not bashing CG, just an over-abundance of it, like the topic is asking.

    When a close-up of Clonetroopers is shown, some wonder why they aren't men in suits.

    And if I remember correctly, weren't a bunch of you bashing Spiderman hard because Spiderman looked fake. I saw many people call Spiderman a complete failure just because he looked fake when he went through the city.

    What, is AOTC exempt from any criticisms? It's just a movie, what argument are you tired of? Mentioning this little CG thing doesn't make the film a bad one, but you sound pained just to hear any little thing.

    C'mon, strengthen yourself up man.

     
  24. Farrokh1

    Farrokh1 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    yeah see the way it looks like a painting, it looks like theyve painted over the 3d image with photoshop. They did this in the mummy, and i thought it looked better as a 3D image. Its like painting a picture sometimes you can overdo it, too many colours not enough contrast. Still a beautiful image though. Why couldnt they have been real actors overlaid?
     
  25. Kelyne

    Kelyne Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 25, 1999
    Mainly because I am hearing this debate everywhere. Now everyone is a special effects expert. Making comments like "man the buildings in AOTC look so CGI", yea okay....even though they are minatures. If it ditracts from the story then I say okay maybe it does not work. In Spidermans case I looked beyond it. Fake looking?, at times yes. I am a student in the field and the amount of work it takes too do this work is epic. Too hear armchair experts poke and prod kinda bugs me.
     
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