Memo to George - An extra in a clonetrooper suit is 1000% better than any CGI creation

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SoftballWizard388, May 19, 2002.

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  1. Farrokh1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 2
    "Come on....its like going too Spiderman and saying man....that looks so fake.....almost like a cartoon. Yea, so what. If it destroys your movie experience don't go. Avoid all movies that have CGI. I am so tired of this argument."

    Once again, this is not CG bashing, i think CG is the best thing that happened to movies, what i want to know is why CG was used for shots that should have been real actors. The clone troopers arent aliens, they dont have funny movements, they are human with human movements. Imagine if Luke and Han had been CG when they were dressed as Stormtroopers, crazy huh, thats why its so baffling. Why was the trooper helping up Padme CG?
    Oh and by the way it is allowed to like other films than Star Wars, i love Spiderman and LOTR. So many people are missing out, because of their small minded ignarance.
    PLus one more time: THIS IS NOT A CG BASHING THREAD!
  2. Kelyne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 3
    I will be email a friend of mine too set this record straight. What was cgi and what was not. Some of the Clone troopers were actually ILM employees on a blue screen stage. This is done a lot at ILM. Many of the senate scenes were done this way as well.
  3. Farrokh1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 2
    Kelyne that is what i wanted from the start, someone who actually knows if there was some real ones. But still if there are real troopers in there, i think they would be the mass battle shots. And I guarantee you the Padme trooper was CG. And I personally love Spidermans effects. Most people dont realise the buildings he swings through are CG. the scene when he chases Uncle Bens killer is awesome.
  4. mocha1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 1
    dood haven't you seen the model doc on starwars.com

    ILM doesn't use CG because its CG, they use it because it's a better/faster/cheaper way to realize something. They still use lots of models and people in masks.

    The clonetroopers looked amazing, i don't care what technique was used.
  5. Farrokh1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 2
    Does anyone have or know of any behind the scenes pictures of actors dressed as Clonetroopers. Every picture of a clonetrooper I have seen is CG, except for that picure of George Lucas looking at the Jedi Starfighter with a clonetrooper arm in thfar right of the picture, but thats it.
  6. Kelyne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 3
    In some ways working on the computer can be a little more time consuming then using s person in costume. You have too either scan or model the object, then you surface it, animate it, light it and somtimes composite it.
  7. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    This thread just proves that audiences cannot tell the difference between live action and CGI. They just assume everything is CGI.
  8. mocha1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 1
    kelyne, yes, but they had to scan the costume in anyways for the shots where we see thousands and thousands of Clonetroopers

    i'm sure if it was more cost-efficient to use a costume they would have done it.

    It's George's money after all.
  9. YodaJeff Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2001
    star 7
    Here's what I think:
    Once you have a CG model in a computer, all you have to do is decide where to place it, and animate it. To use a life actor, you have to film the actor, make sure he moves exactally how you want him to and replace the blue screen. Since ILM obviously had to create a CG model clonetrooper for the wide shots, they already had one in the computer. Rather than film an extra to walk and move exactally how you want him to, they just used the CG model.

    The fact that we aren't positive whether or not the clonetrooper close-ups are CG or not goes to show how good the CG is. Unlike Jabba in ANH:SE, the CG is done so well that we aren't even sure if it is CG or not. I think a lot of people just assume that a lot of the shots are CG today, even though they may be using a model or miniatures.
  10. VladTheImpaler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2000
    star 4
    The thing is, the Padme shot was added late into production...maybe they didn't have any clone trooper suits around at the time of filming, so they decided to CG him in later.

    That last picture actually still looks pretty real to me. The only thing that makes me think it might be CGI is the reflections on their helmets...obviously those reflections wouldn't come from the real-life filming area.

    Do you think they used real actors in real costumes, but used computers to add in reflections? That's entirely possible--they added in quite a few fake reflections in TPM.
  11. Kelyne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 1999
    star 3
    Its been answered.....they are all cgi.
  12. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    All the clones are amazingly impressive. The close-ups of them in the final battle are especially remarkable. I can't see how people can try to find faults.

    The Shaak riding on the other hand...
  13. Kinetik_Jedi Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    wtf u on dude? the clone troopers rocked. damn, i didnt even realise they were CGI o_O

    Congrats to GL and the effects crew for a fantastic job. Gawd this movie rocks.
  14. Smooth_as_Lando Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    You CGI champs: Why don't we just CGI Obi Wan, then we won't need Ewan MacGregor? LOL

    I mostly agree with the topic of this thread. Eventually, columns and columns of CGI stormtroopers just look like a video game. You just can't get the same kind of realism as you get from the armor suits on a live extra.

    I will say, however, they came pretty close. And the close-up shots seemed so real that I thought they were live actors!

    The difference, I think, is: Look at the stormtroopers lined up in the death star during the Emporer's arrival in Return of the Jedi. It just glistens with clarity and realism, more so than CGI can get at this point.

    But on another note, I thought Yoda looked great! So, a mixed bag from my point of view.
  15. Texas_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 1999
    star 3
    I must be an idiot because I thought the close up clones and the ones talking to Yoda were guys in suits not CGI!!!!!!!

    Spiderman swinging through NY city LOOKED TOTALLY FAKE and terrible. The scene where he and the goblin fought the first time at that gathering LOOKED HORRIBLE in my opinion.
  16. Farrokh1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 2
    Im not saying they arent good, they look awesome but why did the close up shots and ones interacting with live actors have to be CG. I think if they had been CG in a nonCG setting they wouldnt have looked as good, and would have definitely been extras. But i still dont get it. Remember im just talking about the Troopers that intereact with the actors, like Padmes trooper the commander that Yoda gives orders to, the Pilot and the ones that Jump out the Gunship onto the ground. I just dont understabd why they were CG. If they were worried that the real ones would look out of place with the CG ones they were mistaken, it just would have better to see a real clonetrooper, maybe even take his helmet off, you know get the sand out his helmet and put it back on. i still havent seen any pictures of a guy in a clontrooper suit, does anyone have any.
  17. mocha1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 1
    The difference, I think, is: Look at the stormtroopers lined up in the death star during the Emporer's arrival in Return of the Jedi. It just glistens with clarity and realism, more so than CGI can get at this point.


    that was a matte painting.
  18. Farrokh1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 2
    not all of them. In the pan and scan version as the camera pans it only just makes it to the matte plate.There were still alot of extras in uniform
  19. mocha1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2001
    star 1
    right but looking at the matte painting of all the troopers make it look horrible.

    they aren't even the right shade of white.
  20. Mar17swgirl Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2000
    star 7
    Funny thing, I never noticed in which scenes there were guys in suits and in which there were CGI Clonetroopers...

    Well, of course the mass shots of Clones lining up were CGI, but that's not the point.

    The point is, that it all looked REAL to me. And that's the goal. It doesn't matter HOW you do things, the effects and stuff, as long as it looks REAL and BELIEVABLE.
  21. Farrokh1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 2
    The CG of the troopers is outstanding but what i want to know is why troopers that intereact or have dialogue were CG. Imagine if the trooper who Han knocks out in ROTJ was CG or the one that trys to Capture Leia. That is what i am trying to get through. I just dont no why it was done. Padmes trooper and the commander and the Pilot should have been real, but now it has become another excuse for CG haters to bash AOTC.
  22. MynDonos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2002
    star 3
    Was the clonetrooper who helped Padme up from the sand CGI too? His footprints in the sand looked very unnatural to me.
  23. Hatter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 4
    You all have to remember that the lighting on Geonosis is very different from, say, the artificial lights in the Death Star. You can't compare a pic of a clonetrooper on Geonosis to a pic of a stormtrooper on the DS. A CG clonetrooper on the DS would look much more realistic. It's just that the lighting on Geonosis is very soft, so it makes the clones look faker than they should.
  24. JarJarIsBoba Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Go watch ANH:SE again. Watch the part when Lucas multiplied the Stormtroopers when Han turns the corner.

    Technically they were multiplied using CGI. But they are real live actors in the suit.

    Frankly, we DO NOT KNOW which parts of AOTC had live actors in the suits and which didn't.

    But since Bodie Taylor is listed as "Clone Captain" in the credits, then at least one of them was real.

    I truly think most of clonetroopers in the battle were guys in suits. On Kamino, however, it looked like CGI.

    But we'll never know until the AOTC DVD.
  25. LUH-3417 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2001
    star 4
    Hey, I think that CG looked great, but I think that it should never take the place of actors, even if it can be made to look real.

    Except for instances like in AOTC when it was needed in those giant battle scenes.

    Awesome movie, GL is coming back strong.

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