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Memo to George - An extra in a clonetrooper suit is 1000% better than any CGI creation

Discussion in 'Archive: Attack of the Clones' started by SoftballWizard388, May 19, 2002.

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  1. Imperial_Guard

    Imperial_Guard Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 13, 2002
    The clonetroopers were fine. People, including myself, were only aware of the clonetroopers being 100% CG after being told. I have a difficult time believing that someone could actually pick out a closeup shot of a clonetrooper as hideously fake. The only CG that really stuck out to me as CG was the Threepio droid factory sequence as previously mentioned. That part where he gets grabbed by that machine droid should have been scrapped or re-shot instead of beng forced in there.
     
  2. Jedi_Chai

    Jedi_Chai Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 2, 2002
    ILM should win the visual effects Oscar for the CG clonetroopers alone. They did a magnificent job with them (CG Yoda is terrific too). I've seen the film numerous times and I'm always looking at the clonetroopers to compare their movements to see if they feel right. And they do. At today's showing I saw something that I hadn't noticed before. When Yoda's gunship lands at the command center it comes to a sudden stop. The clonetrooper on the right side of the screen (to Yoda's personal left) does a tiny hop to keep his balance. Nice touch. It makes the scene all that more believable.

    Good job, ILM. Once again you've shown that you're the best in the business.
     
  3. ElfStar

    ElfStar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 24, 2001
    I don't think people are questioning ILM's talent. They are the standardbearers for the world of special effects, and they continue to create groundbreaking special effects.

    What some people are questioning is how the special effects are used. I do not agree with clonetroopers being CG because as good as they are, real is still better. I'm glad some of you didn't notice. More power to you, or whatever.

    And what is this idiocy to assume people went to AotC looking for CGI? I know no one who would do this. I went to be entertained. That's all I ask for.
     
  4. Rob_Baajakh

    Rob_Baajakh Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    May 30, 2002
    I kind of agree, but they should have made all the Clonetroopers live people, if they would do it for one scene. It would look inconsistent if they were real on close shots. I say, they should have all been real, or they should all be CG. I would have liked live people more though.
     
  5. Darth Pipes

    Darth Pipes Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 12, 1999
    The CGI on the clonetroopers was outstanding. But I do hope GL goes back to costumed troopers in Ep 3. They are the most effective and will look more real in close combat.
     
  6. Imperial_Guard

    Imperial_Guard Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 13, 2002
    If GL had used live actors in suits for closeup shots, some fans would be whining about not using 100% CG to maintain consistency. Also, the cost of all live actors for a large scale battle like AOTC would be astronomical and practically impossible. What's funny is how nobody is complaining about how the battle droids were all CG and should have been real robots programmed with Intel chips or something.
     
  7. GreenWrinklyYoda

    GreenWrinklyYoda Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2002
    An extra in a suit is just stupid for the clone troopers. All those extras, all the suits, and all the money to pay for those is worse than just making a CGI creation. Even if it wasn't, an extra would not be '1000%' better.
     
  8. VladTheImpaler

    VladTheImpaler Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 13, 2000
    It's funny that you accuse people of complaining about inconsistency, if Lucas had used extras in suits. As it stands, I thought the clonetroopers were still very inconsistent.

    For instance, when Yoda first lands with the clone troopers. Unbelievable. Wait--I mean "unbelievable" as in, amazing. Because really, the troopers are SO damn believable. I've looked at some of those shots as critically as I can(and I like to think of myself as a fairly good judge of CGI), and I just don't see how it can be CG. It looks like I can reach out and touch them.

    The background troopers are also great. However, I can tell they are CGI simply because there's no other practical way to film stuff like that.

    But then, there are the unfortunate others. The clone trooper helping Padme up. Animation, texturing, and lighting all seem a little bit iffy. The scene would have worked so much better with a real actor. And then the clones marching at the very end. It could have been such a powerful shot, but it looks like a videogame cutscene. Although to be fair, it's more the environment being reflected off of them than the clonetroopers themselves.

    Well now I'm just rambling, but the important thing is that even though the clone troopers looked GREAT, having just a few shots with Tem Morrison in costume would have made everything a lot smoother.
     
  9. Imperial_Guard

    Imperial_Guard Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Jun 13, 2002
    Was that directed at my last post or someone else?
     
  10. VladTheImpaler

    VladTheImpaler Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Apr 13, 2000
    Well, your comment about inconsistency sparked it, but mostly I'm just stating my views on the subject, not really aiming it at anybody in particular.
     
  11. Darth-sennin

    Darth-sennin Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 24, 2001
    "An extra in a suit is just stupid for the clone troopers. All those extras, all the suits, and all the money to pay for those is worse than just making a CGI creation."

    Green Wrinkly Yoda, why would they need that many extras? Obviously trying to get that many extras would be incredibly expensive, but couldn't they just use one? I don't think people are being creatice enough here. All you need to do is put Morrison in a clonetrooper suit and record him doing some basic movements. All the clontroopers do is run and shoot, you can just put Tem's movements in a computer and duplicate him as many times as you want. Then you have a cheap and realistic battle.
     
  12. Darth-sennin

    Darth-sennin Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 24, 2001
    Double post.
     
  13. jedi-jeff

    jedi-jeff Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    All you need to do is put Morrison in a clonetrooper suit and record him doing some basic movements. All the clontroopers do is run and shoot, you can just put Tem's movements in a computer and duplicate him as many times as you want. Then you have a cheap and realistic battle.


    This was basically how I assumed the clonetroopers were done before I read that they were all CG. If I recall, this method is similar to how large crowds have been done in films for many years.

    I do not have a problem with the CG clonetroopers. I thought they looked fine and I was really surprised that they were all CG. I did notice that the CG trooper's armour is not as glossy and reflective as the classic Stormtroopers armour. I do not know if this is because of the use of CG or deliberate choice for the look of the clonetrooper armour.
     
  14. DarthCorky

    DarthCorky Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Okay so first we pay to produce a clone trooper suit sized to Morrison. Then we get a ton of shots of Morrison in a clone trooper suit running around doing every single action the clone troopers do in the movie. Shoot him from every single angle, always with the blue screen behind him to make sure it doesn't reflect in the armor (also make sure the camera never reflects in the armor or visor). Then we duplicate him in the computer a bunch of times to create the army. Then we digitally tweak every single trooper so that they don't look too synchronized. Then we cover them in some kind of CGI layer so that they properly reflect all the computer environment around them. That'll just about do it, all it will take is a plethora of money and man hours. Anyway, all that is obviously much easier than just rendering a bunch of CGI troopers. If only all of us real trooper promoters could have had a meeting with Lucas during pre-production. Imagine the possibilities!!!
     
  15. TokyoXtreme

    TokyoXtreme Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Imagine the possibilities!!!

    A better-looking movie!
     
  16. Marsguo

    Marsguo Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 9, 2000
    No , a worse looking , static and expensive movie.
     
  17. sidious1

    sidious1 Jedi Youngling star 6

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    Jun 5, 2002
    I would like to have seen one or two of the clonetroopers that were real guys and not cgi,oh well we were made made to suffer...it's our lot in life.
     
  18. The Dark Lord of London

    The Dark Lord of London Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1999
    CG was essential to bring the Clone Troopers to life given the vast numbers of them involved in the battle against the droids. The scenes in question make much more sense as an all-CG affair as the look is more consistent than it would be with, say, 50 guys in suits, multiplied by a thousand and then composited against the CG landscape.
     
  19. Super_Nation_Jock

    Super_Nation_Jock Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2002

    Your thread is called Memo to George.

    You're givin a memo TO GEORGE LUCAS on how to make his movies?

    That's funny. The man's been making movies for what, about 25 years now and I don't think he needs anyone's advice. He's doing pretty good at it following his own ideas.

    I really dont care if the Clonetroopers are real or CGI, I just want the action to be good and for it to seem real.
    I think that's what the public cares about too.

    And I'll bet you go see Ep. 3 too, regardless of HOW he does the clonetroopers in that one, ;)
     
  20. DrEvazan

    DrEvazan Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2002
    i think the real issue with CG is wether or not it integrates with the real characters and wether or not it is it overused, or used in place of a more practical technique "just because you can."

    "What's funny is how nobody is complaining about how the battle droids were all CG and should have been real robots programmed with Intel chips or something."

    actually thats a good point. why not have some practical prop versions of the battle droids so the audience can see characters pysically interacting with them to help make them believeable? they did it for the ships and many of the sets.

    the converse of your question, Imperial_Guard, would be why have any real sets or props at all? just CG the whole thing!

     
  21. darth_pooh

    darth_pooh Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2002
    I'm glad this memo now spans 9 pages. George is gonna have a lot of Reading to do before he sits down in his Marin Outhouse and writes the script for III.
     
  22. jedi-jeff

    jedi-jeff Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    actually thats a good point. why not have some practical prop versions of the battle droids so the audience can see characters pysically interacting with them to help make them believeable?


    Several years ago, I saw a conversation between Lucas and Speilberg at the TPM set (This might be on the TPM DVD). They showed a full sized Battle Droid prop. I assume that this was used for interaction between the characters and these droinds. I can't think of any other reason to justify the expense of making these full scale battle droids.
     
  23. Tricky

    Tricky Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2001
    I got this to say about full-size battle droids...

    Author Topic: $300,000,000 spent to make EP3
    Tricky
    Registered: Jul 01
    Date Posted: 6/29 8:57pm Subject: $300,000,000 spent to make EP3
    What if George Lucas spent the rest of his millions of dollars to try & make ep3 perfect by 2005? With the money that he's made from Star Wars for the last 20 years, he wouldn't have to use CGI armies when he could have real people do it. Actors can brag that they played a clonetrooper in ep3! Lucas could even create on his own or hire robotics experts from Japan that can make real droids. All they'd have to do is load a program of movements into a realistic looking and moving droid body like the Terminator or that ABC robot from Judge Dredd.(I know there's more to it than that, and with ILM there to make better SW droids it could happen) I just don't understand why Lucas has to use CGI so much? If he hired more extra's then he could still use CGI for sets, backrounds, & weird looking aliens like Yoda but that's what CGI is really for.

    I had this idea today while watching AotC at home. We know that ep3 starts with the ending of a 2 year long Clone War. So all the clonetroopers should be people in suits like the stormtroopers and that the droid armies/alien fighters would be people in masks & mechanical animatronics. If Lucas would spend his money, he could kinda re-make the feeling of the OT's movies. 100's of extras in clonetrooper suits will always look real, because it is real people. He could put some money into reasearch to make better & lighter heads & masks. I think that with todays technology & with his money, Lucas can really make ep3 the perfect SW movie.

    Does anybody care? If he did spent all his money to make ep3 perfect, George & has family would have to start all over afain, just like in May 1977. He has 3 years to make ep3. I kinda hope he reads this & gets an idea...
     
  24. Tricky

    Tricky Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2001
    If I was Lucas, I'd gamble all my money on me. Cause I got some Insider information that says that Lucas will triple all the money he has now after ep3 is out and he finishes re-editing all 6 SW movies to fit together & writes his books explaining how the force works.
     
  25. JarJarIsBoba

    JarJarIsBoba Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 24, 2000
    I think this whole thread is a moot point since now we know that every clonetrooper in Episode II is CGI.

    There's no way we could know if an extra in a clonetrooper suit is "1000%" better than any CGI creation since we never see one. And, to me, the clonetroopers in the end battle are pretty darn real to me.
     
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