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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Merging the Amphitheatre and YJCC (back) together. (Now talking about where sports go)

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Tabula Rasa, Aug 17, 2005.

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  1. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Plus, you'd be starting a whole 'oh can't we try x,y and z, it doesn't matter if it doesn't work' trend.


    How do you know for a fact that will happen? It probably will but thinking like that is why change is slow around here. I would assume the administration here has the ability to quash any "why can't we have X forum?" if it came up. The difference in this case is that people have been asking/requesting a sports forum, since well before '02. Big difference IMO. This isn't some topic that someone out of the blue wants a forum for, it's been wanted for years. I just don't see why trying new things meets so much opposition around here. I would think variety and keeping things fresh would be the way to go to retain users but hey that's just me. The more users that stick around = the more users that can click on banners/buy merchandise from TF.N's front page etc.....

    I don't see trying new ideas out, especiallly after things might get slow in a couple of months. Better to be ahead of the curve than behind it.

    Whatever floats their boat though. *shrugs*
     
  2. epic

    epic Ex Mod star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 1999
    amphitheatre and jcc should be merged back, but the senate should remain.
     
  3. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2003
    ummm, I didn't see a warning in that post. But whatever, I wasn't trying to start crap anyway. I was just pointing out that he lied. So sue me. I don't even know how that's a bannable offense, especially if it's true. But I'll play nice if you want me too.
     
  4. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Sure read like a warning to me, and besides, purple is the color Raven uses when warning a particular person.

     
  5. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Heh, oops. this -> I don't see trying new ideas out, especiallly after things might get slow in a couple of months. Better to be ahead of the curve than behind it.


    Should have been this -> I don't see how it's bad trying new ideas out, especiallly after things might get slow in a couple of months. Better to be ahead of the curve than behind it.


     
  6. GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN

    GRAND_MOFF_KEVIN Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2004
    I think the admins should give it a month trial sorta like polls in Lit, if it works it should stay, if not oh well at least we tried, I've talked to many people who have expressed intrest in one so I think its atleast worth a shot.
     
  7. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    A new forum is a bit more important and has a greater impact than turning polls on or off.
     
  8. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2003
    you're right, I have no idea why I haven't memorized the colors mods use when warning someone. [face_plain] How stupid of me.
     
  9. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    I thought we established that I didn't lie, you just had different settings then me. Or do you still think I'm lying?
     
  10. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2003
    forget the settings, the wrestling thread was still on your first page as well. But I'm done with this argument, I'm not gonna get banned over this.
     
  11. ObiWan506

    ObiWan506 Former Head Admin star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2003
    As long as you don't spread around false information about me intentionally lying, then yes I'd say I am done with this argument too.



    As I've said before, The Amphitheatre serves it's purpose and The YJCC serves it's purpose. To merge them back together would create a massive amount of topics in one Forum, instead of it being divided out into two separate Forums like it does now. I don't think it does any harm to keep the Amphitheatre around to help balance out the YJCC more.
     
  12. Everton

    Everton Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Moving all sports discussion to a sports forum would be more than a great physical change... people would get used to the new setup and not want it to go back to how it was. The sports forum would have to split its transferred threads up into lots of smaller reaching threads to fill things up. If things fail and go back, a lot of newly distinct discussion would have to be compressed back into umbrella threads.

    IMO new ideas can be tried out within forums on a trial basis, but new ideas on the scale of a whole forum need to be pretty concrete, and done with the intention to keep. The JCC would change, the sports threads would splinter... basically it's not a change that could be, or indeed should be, reversed.
     
  13. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Moving all sports discussion to a sports forum would be more than a great physical change... people would get used to the new setup and not want it to go back to how it was. The sports forum would have to split its transferred threads up into lots of smaller reaching threads to fill things up. If things fail and go back, a lot of newly distinct discussion would have to be compressed back into umbrella threads.


    Yes that's the general idea. It would create a fun environment because it'd be something new and exciting. If the forum failed why would any discussion have to be compressed back? As it sits now all talk about specific sports are located in the one central thread of its sport. I don't see why the staff would have to move posts in the event the forum failed. Just close it and go back to the old way of discussing sports in the YJCC end of story. If it's advertised as a "trial basis" then it shouldn't be a bid deal.


    IMO new ideas can be tried out within forums on a trial basis, but new ideas on the scale of a whole forum need to be pretty concrete, and done with the intention to keep. The JCC would change, the sports threads would splinter... basically it's not a change that could be, or indeed should be, reversed.


    The impression I'm getting is that "OMG change is bad". Creating a new forum isn't this huge grand undertaking that is going to strain the capacity of the site. Sure it's not your everyday function and I'm not meaning to describe it as such. But to basically make it seem like if this forum [which has been requested for years BTW] were to be a huge failure that it'd be the be all end all of the boards as we know it. What I see are a lot of broad excuses as to why this shouldn't be tried, and if the only excuse so far is that the staff will be inundated with forum requests then I'd have to say the throught process of how things are accomplished here are in doubt. That's basically saying the Staff isn't equipped to deal with it if they can't handle dealing with situations like this. I highly doubt that if Sapeient started a thread announcing the creation of a sports forum and made it abundantly clear that nobody is to make forum requests then I think the users would listen and do what he said. I mean, the staff is capable of enforcing policy, that's what they do.


    I think it would be in the best interest of the site to give the users what they want and not listen to people who are opposed to change. Most of the opposition probably wouldn't even be posters in the new forum anyways from the sounds of it. I also think that merging Amphitheatre into the YJCC is a very very bad idea. Leave it be where it is. IF TF.N doesn't adapt to an era where there are no new SW movies coming out and do not cater to their existing user base then I would imagine the boards would, over time, become slower and slower. Like I said though, I just don't see the harm in trying it. It's not going to be a major catastrophe if the idea doesn't pan out.
     
  14. Armenian_Jedi

    Armenian_Jedi Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2003
    That's the funny part. If there was a sports forum, KnightWriter would be posting there.
     
  15. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    But to basically make it seem like if this forum [which has been requested for years BTW] were to be a huge failure that it'd be the be all end all of the boards as we know it.

    It would be harmful to the JCC, and seeing as I'm sort of invested in that forum (and have been for a long time), I care about what happens to it. There have been requests for a sports forum for many years, but only by a small number of people each time.

    I think it would be in the best interest of the site to give the users what they want and not listen to people who are opposed to change.

    Sounds great on the surface, until you really start thinking about it. Simply put, it's not always wise to give people what they want, especially when (as can be seen in this thread) people's desires conflict. Which group or individual wins? Is it always the one wanting change? Change isn't always a good thing. It certainly can be, and we need progress. But, progress for the sake of progress is something I know I can do without.

    IF TF.N doesn't adapt to an era where there are no new SW movies coming out and do not cater to their existing user base then I would imagine the boards would, over time, become slower and slower.

    Sounds fine to me, and I think quite a few others feel likewise. Many of us look forward to a time when things quiet down, and the community becomes closer to what it was in the early years of the JC. I think we already cater enough to non-Star Wars interests, and don't need to make any changes along those lines for the time being.
     
  16. Everton

    Everton Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jul 18, 2003
    I expect I would too. But that doesn't mean I have to be in favour of the change.
     
  17. Darth_Surgent

    Darth_Surgent Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Something tells me that the owner of this site would not agree with you.
     
  18. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Sounds great on the surface, until you really start thinking about it. Simply put, it's not always wise to give people what they want, especially when (as can be seen in this thread) people's desires conflict. Which group or individual wins? Is it always the one wanting change? Change isn't always a good thing. It certainly can be, and we need progress. But, progress for the sake of progress is something I know I can do without.


    Okay I'm confused here. Why does someone [group or individual] have to "win"? Here's the deal, what is the big obstacle to creating an entire new forum dedicated to sports? So the YJCC sports topics would cease, so what? Why people are up in arms over this is beyond me. If anything it will free up space in YJCC. The people who are against this idea again, probably have no interest in visiting a new forum for such discussion. If anyone who is against the creation of a brand new sports forum can come up with a valid reason why it shouldn't be done I'll shut up. Every reason that I've seen so far for not trying it has been absurd IMO. What good reason is there to not have sports discussion in its own forum other than having to create it? Is the YJCC going to suffer because of it, of course not. Is the staff going to be asked to make additional forums? Not if you make it crystal clear from the onset that such requests are not wanted at this time. But if the only reason for not creating a sports forum is because some people are against it is just ludicrous. You can't please all the people all of the time. And I wouldn't view this as progress just for the sake of progress. If the site does not change/adapt then it will slowly over the period of months/years dwindle. Again, what is the harm in trying the idea out? If it does not succeed you've proved your point.


    And not all change is good. Merging Amphitheatre back into YJCC would be a bad move. The Amphitheatre posts are a tad bit more thorough IMO. YJCC is more of a short/sweet answer forum.
     
  19. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    I would enjoy a sports forum, in fact I know many others that would as well. This is not the only site I post on, and some of the others have very active sport forums that are not isolated to just US sports, they also encompass sporting events and teams from other countries with no problem. Sport fans always have something in common, that is the love of the game (no matter what that game is).

    Maybe the reason we don't see many sport threads in the YJCC is because it is so full of crud that many don't want to go through the hassle to find them, or once they do they would rather not put up with some of the nonesense that goes on in that forum. I rarely step into the YJCC, even if there was a thread that I wanted to frequent I doubt that I would make the effort to do so simply because of the atmosphere in there.

    I have a completely crazy and off the wall idea, instead of simply assuming that there would be no interest, or that the forum would flop, why not utilize the poll option that we have on this site and ask the users if there would indeed be an interest. Why does the administration frequently feel the need to tell us what we really want?

    I see a lot of this going around in the JC, the administration always makes assumptions on what the people here want or don't want, but rarely do we see any of the administration simply take the time to ask. Obviously there is an interest in it becuase this topic has been brought up more than once, I would be willing to bet my favorite sock that if a poll was made regarding this it would have a lot more support that many assume.

    What was that saying about assuming things, oh yeah it makes an ass out of u at the expense of me. ;)
     
  20. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    ^ Or the poll would show that there's enough interest to at least try the idea out.
     
  21. DVeditor

    DVeditor Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2001
    Despised1 posted on 8/25/05 11:54pm
    I have a completely crazy and off the wall idea, instead of simply assuming that there would be no interest, or that the forum would flop, why not utilize the poll option that we have on this site and ask the users if there would indeed be an interest. Why does the administration frequently feel the need to tell us what we really want? [hr][/blockquote] Read the replies to this topic and some of the other sports suggestions here in Comms and you'll find that there is a need to formulate a plan with enough interest shown before this concept could even be considered. IMHO if enough research and questioning were to be done to show that this would be a valuable contribution to the JC then the administration would take a second look at things. But a few users deciding that [i]"the administration always makes assumptions on what the people here want or don't want"[/i] is hardly enough information to expect this sort of action to be taken.

    All I ask is that you take a step back and consider the fact that perhaps the administration [u]is[/u] open to suggestions if they are presented with tact and adequate information. I'm not saying that the idea would be accepted either way, but if people are serious about this they will put forth the effort to present the best possible suggestion.

    Just some thoughts.
     
  22. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    But a few users deciding that "the administration always makes assumptions on what the people here want or don't want" is hardly enough information to expect this sort of action to be taken.

    I agree. It would appear most of the resistance to adding a new sports forum is coming from the User base. Some of the excuses as to why the staff here couldn't/shouldn't do it is humorous to say the least. My favorite so far is that the mods will be dealing with forum requests 24/7 basically and that you guys won't be able to deal with it so simply dismissing the idea is the best way to go. Though I gotta admit some of the replies by Staffers make me wonder why just "trying" the idea out, after like you said enough determining factors were gathered. The part that baffles me isn't that there is opposition to the idea, I can dig that, it's got more to do with the fact that people [some staff/users] dismiss the idea before it even has a chance to get off the ground. All of these excuses as to why it won't work are flying out of the woodwork. It amazes me to no end. It seems like most of the users opposed to this idea wouldn't be sports forum regulars, that's just a wild guess, but I'll stand by it.



    All I ask is that you take a step back and consider the fact that perhaps the administration is open to suggestions if they are presented with tact and adequate information. I'm not saying that the idea would be accepted either way, but if people are serious about this they will put forth the effort to present the best possible suggestion.


    Yep. And to be honest the administration would be stupid to just blindly create some forum without first setting some ground rules/prep work. I don't really see that ever happening around here and that's probably a good thing.
     
  23. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    No the administration is not open to ideas, everytime we see a thread open up in comms with a recomendation it usually gets shot down rather quickly. I read this whole thread and a lot of what I have seen is a few people (mostly administration) telling us that there is no interest in a sport forum, regardless of the fact that people keep telling them that there is an interest. How many times do people need to ask for this type of forum before you peope think there is a desire for it?

    I have been here long enough to have seen this very topic on many occassions, and each time there are different people putting the case forward for it. It would be different if it was always the same person, but that is not the case.

    Read the replies to this topic and some of the other sports suggestions here in Comms and you'll find that there is a need to formulate a plan with enough interest shown before this concept could even be considered. IMHO if enough then the administration would take a second look at things.

    Once again, how hard would it be to simply post a poll and ask the users what they want. All that has to be done is to ask "Would you be interested in a sport forum, yes/no". The poll serves the purpose of "research and questioning were to be done to show that this would be a valuable contribution to the JC", let the members decide this instead of the administration.

    There does not need to be a plan yet because all you are doing is polling the members to see if anyone cares about it, if not the thread gets locked and things move on as usual. Why make a plan for something before you find out if anyone is even intestested, that is a little backwards don't you think? What would there be to plan anyway, all it would be is a sports forum, there is no need to plan anything, enlighten me if I am wrong.

    A poll is there for that very purpose, but it is never used. Instead we get the administration telling us that there is no community desire for it, how do they know since nobody has bothered to ask the members that frequent this site? All I have seen is assumptions about what we want.
     
  24. Major_Sarcasm

    Major_Sarcasm Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2003
    ^^ did I say that they should blindly create a forum? No I didn't. I said create a poll (that is a thread just incase you are confused) and see if anyone even has an interest in it and then if there is do the planning, if nobody wants a sport forum then nothing is lost..


    Err, I didn't say you did. I meant it [that generalized statement] as the administration wouldn't just arbitrarily put an idea forth without having a plan in place first. The statement is meant to illustrate that they just won't do anything on a whim here, that you can be sure of. They do their homework first if anything.

    I could be wrong here but I think DVeditor is agreeing with you. He's saying the administration should have all their ducks in a row, like you said [poll or whathaveyou to gauge interest], before committing to any idea. Chill dude. :p
     
  25. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Hehe...I had misunderstood what you posted, I already edited it out. ;)

    ~pops chill pill~ :p
     
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