Metallica...sell-outs or just old hacks?

Seriously. These guys elevated themselves far about the glam-rock of the 1980's with darker lyrics and heavy tunes. Albums like Kill 'Em All, Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, And Justice For All are considered by most rock/ heavy-metal fans to be classics. So, what went wrong?

I understand their need to "experiment" with different sounds, and I (kind of) enjoyed SOME of the stuff on the Black Album and Load...but why does so much of their new stuff sound like really bad COUNTRY tunes?! (Remakes of BOB SEGAR songs??!?!) I expected more from these guys in their old age.

I still love all of their old albums and listen to them quite frequently, but I can't bring myself to buy any of their new stuff. Give me an 8 minute-plus epic with 3 or 4 gutiar solos any day!

What do you think of Metallica...old and new? Do you like their new songs/albums or are you strictly old-school, or perhaps you like a bit of both?

 

Yes, far be it for a band to grow and attempt to pursue new avenues that open up to them. Let's have them all play the same things for the rest of their lives and die in stagnation.

Can you tell that I really hate that mentality?

I understand not liking the new stuff because it doesn't fit in with your ideas of what the band is but, just as the band does, you have to continually re-examine what that really means.

Growth as an artist is key to their longevity. I know of very few people who have 20 year careers and didn't vary their approach and style or their content quite a bit. That's in almost every artistic medium I've ever encountered anyway.

I like Metallica's old school stuff but I also love the black album and several of the songs on Load. They are also one of the best bands around for covers, as their musicianship and professionalism elevate them up to, and quite often, beyond the levels of the original artists.

The main problem that they are running into is that they always had these different influences but they never really wore them on their sleeves in the first decade that they were around. The result was that many of their longtime fans didn't understand where this new music was coming from and didn't like it. They felt they were selling out or being untrue to themselves when, in actuality, it was just the opposite.

I can understand not liking a new endeavor (I didn't enjoy much of Led Zeppelin's later albums and I still enjoy most of the middle year Beatle tunes more than their latter counterparts) but I can't understand the venom with which their new stuff was met.

 

yodafett has a point. If their music were to stay the same for all of their career, the only people that would like them were the people who liked them when they first came out. They wouldn't last very long doing that. I personally like every bit of their music, 'cept the stuff that sounds exactly like country, that just needs to be burned. Garage Inc was a good album in my opinion, I liked Whiskey in the Jar, but that's probably because it was originally an Irish folk song, and I'm Irish, and like Irish folk, but hey.

 

I said I understand their need to experiment with new sounds and styles...personally I just prefer the old stuff. That's all. I'm wondering what other's think.

 

I said I understand their need to experiment with new sounds and styles...personally I just prefer the old stuff. That's all. I'm wondering what other's think.

You did say that, but you also say that they are "sell-outs" or "old hacks." Personally, I don't see how being popular or trying to grow musically as "selling out."

 

I put a QUESTION MARK after sell outs and hacks! That's a way of posing a QUESTION. I guess it's a sensationalist way to draw attention to a thread. I didn't say I believed they were sell-outs, I just raised the question if you guys thought they were.

Whatever. Forget it. I've lost interest in this already.

 

They did make such a big deal about being non-commercial, non-mainstream back in the late 80's. Not making videos, saying they never would etc.

While I totally understand why they've done what they've done. I can see why some people felt they were lead to believe that they stood for something else and feel let down by it.

 

Metallica...sell-outs or just old hacks?

Both.

Mostly, though, they're just old hacks. They're pretty nice guys, with pretty good prerogatives, otherwise.

Except for....

Lars Ulrich. He is a greedy, rude, and generally waste of an individual. All this, and he's just the drummer. Just sad.

 

Yes, he may be rude, but the discussion at hand is attempting to define them as either "old hacks" or "sell-outs," which is based entirely on talent, not personality, per se.

Lars is an awesome drummer, and while you may not agree with some of his decisions, you gotta respect the talent to some degree.

I hold to this day that Metallica went down hill after Hetfield started taking lessons regularly from a vocalist.

 

I'm not a big fan of Metallica, but I really like the empire theme that they did with the San Fransico Symphony.

A company here got in a lawsuit with them a few years back. The Company was formed in the 60s, and had registed their name. Their name? Metallica Metal Works. Sadly the court threw it out. I'm sorry, but if the name was registred and owned that makes copying it against the law.

 

well i think they are just old. i personally enjoy their old stuff(like many of you). i also love the S&M cd.

but lately their stuff has become, well, crap.

"I dissapear" is one of their worst songs. and have you heard "we did it again" with Ja Rule. just plain ****ty.

 

Song with Ja Rule, suing a perfume company. I think the record speaks for itself. Ive found that most Star Wars fans on this board have horribile taste in music anyway.

 

Darth Dradus is absolutely right. I'd hate for my favorite band to collaborate in any way with Ja Rule. If they were going to choose a rapper, the least they could do is select one with talent and credibility.

Metallica had a good run but their old years have been disgraceful.

 

Darth Dradus, Just because not a lot of people here at the JC like your favorite music doesn't mean they have bad taste. You need to learn to respect others opinions.

 

Here's an excellent interview with a former Elektra Records employee talking about how the a*holes at Elektra, along with virtually every other label, have screwed Metallica, and many other artists, hand over fist.

Now, I'm not endorsing Metallica as my favorite band. I don't think Lars is that great a percussionist... there are numerous jazz drummers that can put his rudimentary skills to shame. He's ok.

I talked with Metallica's concert promoters a few years back and got the distinct impression that they've always been jerks... money or no money. But I also got the distinct impression they weren't incredibly savvy businesspeople, either.

To make a long story not so long... I think their experimenting comes off the back of less-than-stellar record sales, a record contract being wielded over their heads like an axe... and the fact that many of the perks they had in the good ol' black album days vanished because of politics and a change of A&R heads at Elektra. One of the problems is that they can't get out of their contract... they have tried, mind you.

Elektra A&R has probably got them running around trying to record and re-record demos for Elektra A&R's approval for the express purpose of keeping them from being picked up by another label who has the means and finances to put enough into promoting them back to superstardom... and making much more money than Elektra can off their backs.

So here's Metallica, anachronistic band that they are, trying to keep up with changing times, while Elektra, part of the Warner Music Group, which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of... you guessed it... the bloated AOL-TimeWarner conglomerate... is using them as one gigantic tax writeoff... hmm, accounting sleight-of-hand seems to be an issue with them lately...

 

Metallica..

Kill em All
Ride the Lightning
Master of Puppets
And Justice For All

CLASSICS


Everything else...

POODOO


Oh...nice sig there...but it goes like this

And the maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights
They said the oaks are just too greedy, we will make them give us light
And the oaks can't help their feelings, they like the way they're made
And they wonder why the maples can't be happy in their shade.

 

Do ppl still hate them for suing Napster??

 

I dont care if there "trying to grow musically" or whatever. Im a big fan of there pre-black album stuff, heck I even heard Ride the lightning and Master og puppets today. But the new music is way to MTV'ish to be decent Heavy Metal.

Cliff Burton said he diddent want the band to make music videos becaurse music was to be heard, not watched. When Cliff died sometime after Justice for all, it kinda when down the hill for them IMO.

 

Cliff Burton said he diddent want the band to make music videos becaurse music was to be heard, not watched.

There's a stubborn bit of illogical thinking.

Did he and his bandmates perform concerts with their backs to the audience during his tenure, or what?

 

I was just starting to get into their older stuff until they turned me off by attacking Napster.

 

Napster is just a bunch of evil vice-presidents anyway.

Who needs 'em?

Just another middleman trying to get in on the action.

 

Song with Ja Rule, suing a perfume company. I think the record speaks for itself.

What exactly is that supposed to mean?

To make a long story not so long... I think their experimenting comes off the back of less-than-stellar record sales, a record contract being wielded over their heads like an axe... and the fact that many of the perks they had in the good ol' black album days vanished because of politics and a change of A&R heads at Elektra. One of the problems is that they can't get out of their contract... they have tried, mind you.

You are wrong. You are so wrong it makes me want to vomit. Their experimenting doesn't come from anything but their own creative desires and personal decisions. The Black Album today has sold more than 20 million copies. I know that doesn't seem like much, but for a Metal band, that is completely unheard of. They don't have a record contract being weilded over their heads like an axe, they are with Elektra because Elektra needs Metallica. NOT the other way around. They could get out of their record contract in an instant, but they choose not to because Elektra has always bent over backwards to keep them there.

Elektra A&R has probably got them running around trying to record and re-record demos for Elektra A&R's approval for the express purpose of keeping them from being picked up by another label who has the means and finances to put enough into promoting them back to superstardom... and making much more money than Elektra can off their backs.

Superstardom is the last thing on Metallica's mind. Period.

I was just starting to get into their older stuff until they turned me off by attacking Napster.

They didn't attack Napster, all they did was make them public. How is that attacking them?

 

Um cliff died before and justice my friend

 

They are sell outs, not because of their music but because of them appearing on MTV, making video's etc. Go look up an interview with them in 1983, they say "you will never see Metallica on MTV".

That's selling out. And don't tell me that "people change" because if you wanted to be able to get on MTV later you do not say something as final as "never" before.

 

And don't tell me that "people change" because if you wanted to be able to get on MTV later you do not say something as final as "never" before.

Yeah, well immature people will often use statements of finality when they're trying to sound tough or defiant. We all mature with age, and Metallica has done so likewise. It would be wise for everyone to be mindful of the phrase "never say never", but that isn't easy to do when you're a young punk. You can't hold that against them.

In one of my rarer moments I agree with Snowdog with regards to Napster.

Furthermore, I'm amazed at the number of people who whine & moan about Napster. Use your heads. Just what do you think Napster was allowing the public to do, anyway? Those that complain are people who are just upset that they can't get their entertainment without paying for it as they should be. [Arnold]Stop whining![/Arnold]

Lastly...I abhor the term 'sellout'. As if what a band decides to do with the evolving direction of their music should have such weight and matter soooo much with their fans. Does it matter that their music started to get onto radio stations and MTV? Oooooohhh, those betrayers! How could they do that? Just for that I'm not going to like them anymore.

Silly.