MF Ternian Report: The Death of Amidala Skywalker

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Get_in_Gear, Jan 23, 2005.

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  1. who-put-u-n-charge Jedi Knight

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    Jan 7, 2005
    star 1
  2. DarthNomis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 6
    It could be to kill him, it could be to save him. It is to do whatever the Force tells him to do. Luke must decide within his own heart and mind what to do.

    But in the end of it all, when everything was on line, All_PowerfulJedi , it was Anakin that made the right decision that eventually saved Luke, himself and the galaxy.
  3. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    it was Anakin that made the right decision that eventually saved Luke, himself and the galaxy.

    But Luke gave him the opportunity to make that decision. It would have taken just another blow to kill the body that housed both Vafer and Anakin. Luke gives Anakin/Vader the choice to kill his Vader self and go back into the Force, as should have happened in RotS.
  4. All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    But in the end of it all, when everything was on line, All_PowerfulJedi , it was Anakin that made the right decision that eventually saved Luke, himself and the galaxy.


    "But Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future."
    "But not at the expense of the moment."

    The problem here is that you, the audience member, already know how the story ends. You're too fixated on the end of the story that you're forgetting that we're in Revenge of the Sith and not Return of the Jedi. It's up to Luke to give Anakin that second chance, not up to Obi-Wan and Yoda. The two remaining Jedi are only there to do what the Force asks of them, and what feels right in the moment. At the end of ROTS, the option will not be given to them to save Anakin Skywalker. The only opportunity it gives them is to keep the twins safe.

    In the end, the Force will guide Luke to his opportunity to play a role in whatever the Force deems fit. Obi-Wan and Yoda's role was to set Luke on the right path. Luke finds his call in the end and realizes that he needs to give his father the choice, but that isn't something Obi-Wan and Yoda consciously guide him to.
  5. DarthNomis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 6
    A repost from earlier this morning to show my OVERALL opinion of this new spoiler and show you were i'm coming from in my recent posts All_Powerful_Jedi, Forever_Jedi :

    This new relvelation that Qui-Gon is the "master" somehow of the force and it's true nature made me thinks of some of the things Yoda said to Luke and how it related to some of the things Qui-Gon was trying to tell Obi-Wan about the force in TPM.

    At the begining of TPM obi-Wan "had a bad feeling" about something "elusive" yet Qui-Gon didn't feel it and advise him to concentrate on the "here and now".

    Then Obi-Wan replies that " Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future".

    Qui-Gon tells him to concetrate on "the living force". or in other word pay attention to the NOW and not what may or may not happen in the future.

    After reading this recent spoiler in this thread about Qui-Gon having a better grasp of the force than even Yoda does during the time of PTs it becomes evident why Yoda was cautious with training Luke in TESB because he was always "looking to the future, the horizan! Never his mind on Where he was at! What he was doing!"

    Which is what Obi-Wan was doing (and perhaps the Jedi as a whole)in TPM.

    Trying to uncover the mystery of the Sith while right under there nose, all the time, Sidious was underminding their ability to use the force for knowledge and create the clone wars as a distraction.

    Maybe if the jedi would've paid more attention on the "here and now", the living force, than they could've stopped Sidious plans before they reached to full furition.

    Obviously this would've also help Luke in facing Vader for the first time in TESB if he would've finished his training and told that Vader was his father.

    But his distured vision of the future with Han and Leia in trouble made him vunerable to going off and facing him and made matters worse.

    So Yoda's conversation with Qui-Gon during Padme death could be the reason why Yoda's perception of the force is different in his training to Luke then the Jedi had in The PTs.

    If so, brilliant on GL part.

  6. All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    Oh, yeah, well, I definitely agree with that. :)
  7. DarthNomis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 6
    Oh, yeah, well, I definitely agree with that.

    Whew...at least I can get that one from you. :p :)


    Now just to convince ForeverJedi .... [face_mischief]
  8. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    I too agree with you Darth Nomis about Qui-Gon's philosophy being correct in TPM about keeping his focus on the present! However, he himself was guilty of not quite following this when he wanted Anakin to be trained as a Jedi in reference to some vague, future prophecy. In the "Here and Now", Anakin was a happy little boy, loving his mother, adoring Padme, loving podraces. But he was pushed into a strict Jedi life.

    But it looks like Qui-Gon in the afterlife realized that love in Anakin's life was the most important thing and that's what he tells Yoda. And of course, Yoda and the entire order also had not realized this before. If they had, they would have encouraged Anakin to seek a different path in the last 13 years.

    On the other hand, it appears from what Pablo said that in RotS, the ability to see the future had also decreased for the Jedi. IMHO, in the OT, both Yoda and Obi-Wan practise a very balanced view of the Force (Living AND Unifying), for the first time in the saga for anyone. They focuzs on the present but have definite future goals. And Luke is the product of this BALANCED philosophy.
  9. DarthMolly Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2005
    star 1
    Anakin was a happy little boy, loving his mother, adoring Padme, loving podraces. But he was pushed into a strict Jedi life.

    But it looks like Qui-Gon in the afterlife realized that love in Anakin's life was the most important thing


    I think that is so awesome, forever_jedi! The one thing he was forbidden to have (love)! Turned him to the dark side, it did!

    Edited in TPM yoda says to anakin of his mother "Afraid to lose her...." & anakin replies "what's that got to do with anything?" youda says "everything!!"

    That part of the movie has always bothered me (being a mother & all). How can anyone expect a little child to forget his mother so quickly? What kind of cold, unloving kid would he be then? A sith lord, maybe.
  10. Vezner Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2001
    star 5
    Here's my take on all of this.

    In the OT Yoda and Obi-Wan told Luke that in order for him to become a Jedi he must face Darth Vader again. Until now I always thought it was some sort of "right of passage" or something. But after Motee's spoilers it makes me realize this question, "how is Luke going to be able to turn Vader to the light unless he confronts him and shows his "love" for his father?" Yoda and Obi = sneaky. [face_mischief]

    Also, my take on Yoda no longer being "THE master" and Qui Gon taking his place is basically I don't believe it yet. I personally feel that Yoda is a very powerful Jedi and having this newfound knowledge will only make him more powerful. Yoda will always be "THE MASTER" in my eyes. Of course ROTS may change my mind after I actually see the movie but I personally doubt it. Qui Gon is cool and all but Yoda is way better. I mean yeah, Yoda gets his butt handed to him by Sidious, but Qui Gon got his butt handed to him by Maul. ;)

    As far as Yoda on Dagobah, I personally think that he is going there to learn about the Live Force. He's probably also making the Force "Obey his commands" as Obi put it, by forcing all of the dark side portions of the force into "The Cave". That's just my opinion of course. There's lots of balance there. He's learning from the force and also giving it commands and using it.

    The big tragedy is that Mace never was able to learn about The Living Force as Yoda and Obi have been able to do. Mace = lost forever. Mace is the tragedy of Star Wars IMO. :_| :p

    My question is what significance is there to the Jedi losing their abilities in AOTC? Mace made a big point of this. Is it because the force (or midis) had chosen to leave them finally because of their "lack of love" or something? This point is confusing the heck out of me. Do the Sith have a influencing factor here somehow? If so, shouldn't they also be losing their touch with the force? I mean the sith hardly embrace Love. ;)

    CONFUSED = ME! :_|
  11. All_Powerful_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    My question is what significance is there to the Jedi losing their abilities in AOTC? Mace made a big point of this. Is it because the force (or midis) had chosen to leave them finally because of their "lack of love" or something? This point is confusing the heck out of me. Do the Sith have a influencing factor here somehow? If so, shouldn't they also be losing their touch with the force? I mean the sith hardly embrace Love.

    I think it's because Mace hadn't learned to pull the X-Wing out of the swamp yet. He needed to unlearn what he had learned. The Jedi still had an amazing ability to use the Force, but because of their focus on the future and the slippery slope they fell down, they lost sight on the fact that they could still use it.

    They lost touch with the spiritual binding force that was all around them. They basically handed Sidious the ball.
  12. DarthNomis Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2001
    star 6
    I too agree with you Darth Nomis about Qui-Gon's philosophy being correct in TPM about keeping his focus on the present! However, he himself was guilty of not quite following this when he wanted Anakin to be trained as a Jedi in reference to some vague, future prophecy. In the "Here and Now", Anakin was a happy little boy, loving his mother, adoring Padme, loving podraces. But he was pushed into a strict Jedi life.

    ALRIGHT! I got you on board also Forever_Jedi
    :D

    And I agree that Qui-Gon is guilty ingoring his own advice to keep his own thoughts on the "living force" by his adimently wanted Anakin to be trained as a Jedi and "the Chosen" due to his faith of a vague prophecy by any means neccasary.

    Although "pushed into being a Jedi" is a little too strong a wording for me in Anakin becoming a Jedi, the choice to be a Jedi was put in front of Anakin and he accepted (although Qui-gon had a hand in things happening so that the choice was place in front of Anakin i.e. making the choice cube turn up so Anakin would be freed and not his mom).

    Qui-Gon maybe considered the most complex Jedi of all time.

    But it looks like Qui-Gon in the afterlife realized that love in Anakin's life was the most important thing and that's what he tells Yoda. And of course, Yoda and the entire order also had not realized this before. If they had, they would have encouraged Anakin to seek a different path in the last 13 years.

    I agree 100%.

    On the other hand, it appears from what Pablo said that in RotS, the ability to see the future had also decreased for the Jedi. IMHO, in the OT, both Yoda and Obi-Wan practise a very balanced view of the Force (Living AND Unifying), for the first time in the saga for anyone. They focuzs on the present but have definite future goals. And Luke is the product of this BALANCED philosophy.

    Interesting. So Yoda and Obi-Wan realize that the Jedi code was only partially correct and that Qui-Gon's philosophy was correct also. Good stuff. I never thought of it like that.

    The force itself may have a douality. A symbionant of Living and unifying (symbionant being the theme of TPM or even the entire saga) :)

    Sort of like Yen Yang.
    [image=http://www.darkervisions.com/gallery/yenyang_tm.jpg] = The Force ?

    It reminds me of what Obi-Wan tells Luke on the Falcon in ANH when Luke ask if the force controls your actions.

    "Partially...but it also obey your commands."

    Wow. This really is coming full circle. GL is a genius.
  13. vaderluv Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 19, 2005
    star 1
    Although I must admit, I always thought that scene in TESB when Leia looks so intently at Vader just before Han is lower in the carbonite as forshadowing that they may have a relationship of sorts.

    Indeed-i-o!, DarthNomis. You should check out the discussion on the CT boards about this very topic.

  14. Nostril_of_Palpatine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2004
    star 1
    So, just who is Amidala Skywalker? :confused:
  15. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    So, just who is Amidala Skywalker?

    I think you know the answer to that.

    Just like refeing to Jessica Parker (Sarah) or Jason Leigh (Jennifer)...
  16. Nostril_of_Palpatine Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2004
    star 1
    I think you know the answer to that.

    Really? Because I thought I was being sarcastic. Guess not. That's why there was a festive little face next to it.
  17. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    Really? Because I thought I was being sarcastic. Guess not. That's why there was a festive little face next to it.

    That face don't look sarcastic to me. ;)

    (See that's the sarcastic one)

    J/K :)

    (And that't to make doubly clear I didn't mean to offend - I was being dry in response to you observed and appreciated sarcasm)
  18. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    magnificent, aren't they? the posts and the newbie clones.
    but...the cut scene in the temple - where yoda mentions that the jedi have become arrogant and too sure of themselves, and obi wan echoes those same criticism against anakin in the cut scene when he is talking to mace before leaving for kamino. so.. if yoda's own "arrogance" (just can't get used to that word when describing yoda) prevented him from seeing the true nature of the force is this the old kettle/black thing?
  19. JPorkins Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2005
    star 1
    how can Yoda just have had a conversation with Qui-Gon? I thought he died in TPM
  20. Darthette Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 10, 2003
    star 5
  21. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 4
    Hey everyone. I just got home from a long days work. I just read Motee's posts. In one of them he stated that Qui-Gon does NOT appear.

    Then later on I saw someone say that Motee had confirmed that we in fact hear his voice.

    Did Motee literally confirm this?

    I read through all of Motee's posts and I never saw him confirm that we will HEAR Qui-Gon.

    I am confused. Thanks :)
  22. The Starkiller Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 1999
    star 2
    I don't think he's confirmed we hear him, but he's given us a line of Qui-Gon's dialogue. Unless that's being retold through another character (like Yoda), I'm guessing that's a good indication we hear him.
  23. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 4
    Yeah I just read that. :)

    It appears that Qui-Gon reveals that love is the secret to using the force the proper way...

    Has anyone figured out if Qui-Gon reveals how to actually reappear as a ghost or a voice?
  24. SAND-CRAWLER Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2003
    star 4
    It appears that Qui-Gon reveals that love is the secret to using the force the proper way...

    Ummmm...that's the revelation? It's pretty obvious isn't it? Anything you do should be done in love. I hope that force-ghosting isn't explained by something this simple.

    I still think it has more to do with giving your life force away for someone elses benefit than just "love is the answer".
  25. MovieTrailerMusic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    You know Ive beeen wondering does Obi hear Qui Gon too ?

    Isnt he around
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