MF Ternian Report: The Death of Amidala Skywalker

Well said, Tion. I tip my hat to you.

 

I like this death scene better than the last report how Padme is just dead, but there seems to be a few plot holes. Like why doesn't Luke remember Padme but Leia does? If Anakin knew Padme was pregnant and was planning on calling her Leia, surely he would have regognised his daughter in ANH and ESB who:

1) Is named Leia
2) Looks like Padme
3) Would have been able to sense the Force in her.

Lucas might have been making this up as he is going a long, but surely he could have at least done the OT justice instead of making more plot holes.

Ciao!

 

What's really so great about this to me is that GL is promoting love as the greatest force in the universe - but at the same time, he's dealing with the difficulties of love. It's not just a simple thought, "all you need is love" - there are different approaches to love and different levels:

Jedi: detatched compassion
Qui-Gon: deep compassion
Luke: personal love
Anakin: attachment and possession

It's much more complex than a simple message about the power of love, he shows us the downsides as well - the downside of excessive detatchment (the Jedi lose emotion and lose some of their connection to life), and the downside of excessive attachment (Anakin becomes greedy and is seduced to the Dark Side). Only through finding the right balance - being able to love deeply and emotionally, but also being able to accept change - do we learn the true nature of life and the Force.

 

agree MR C thank yee kindly - and no, this is not the year for the lions. but we can dream. not anakin's dream. barry's.

 

I like this death scene better than the last report how Padme is just dead, but there seems to be a few plot holes. Like why doesn't Luke remember Padme but Leia does? If Anakin knew Padme was pregnant and was planning on calling her Leia, surely he would have regognised his daughter in ANH and ESB who:

1) Is named Leia
2) Looks like Padme
3) Would have been able to sense the Force in her.

Lucas might have been making this up as he is going a long, but surely he could have at least done the OT justice instead of making more plot holes.

Ciao!

Seen everything about these spoilers... we have not

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with our topic - but does anyone know why Owen & Peru don't recognize C3PO when they buy hte droids from the Jawas in ANH since they lived with 3PO and met R2 in AotC?

I guess it's impossible to fill all the holes. RotS is still going to be awesome.

 

in AOTC he had silver plating...and in ANH he had gold??....

beru and owen are pretty slow...??

found another plot hole, you have...hmmmm??

 

Hey, Tion -- I particularly like the part where you said "He must become a padawan again, to Qui-gon, and learn the TRUE ways of the Force for 2 decades so he can pass it on to Luke! -- especially because I said it HERE on 1/23 @ 8:26am.

and also HERE on 1/23 @ 5:29pm.

Oh, and you were posting heavily on both threads, so it is not coincidental that you "came up with this idea." Please take the time to give credit where credit is due, dude, or put on your flame retardant gear and stand by for the full power of the dark side . . . . .

 

seen one droid - seen them all? not terribly distinct from one another. and tee-i like the image of kick-ass monks=your vision of the jedi. and didn't it seem to most all that obi wan at the imminent death of qui gon sure seemed like he loved his master.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with our topic - but does anyone know why Owen & Peru don't recognize C3PO when they buy hte droids from the Jawas in ANH since they lived with 3PO and met R2 in AotC?

I guess it's impossible to fill all the holes. RotS is still going to be awesome.

Um, did we not see a white protocol droid on Hoth, and another gold protocol droid on Cloud City? Wouldn't that imply that 3PO's type are...common?

 

Well, I think Leia isn't as strong in the force, and I believe that's why Vader doesn't sense it in her. I think he doesn't even bother to sense it because he's known that Leia for a long time. He believes her to be the daughter of his enemy Bail and a senator.


And about the Leia remembering Padme thing... I think there's more to that thing about Padme freaking out.

"It's a girl," says the droid. But Padme is no longer her self - she is delirious.

"Anakin!" she suddenly cries. Obi-Wan comforts her, telling her that Anakin is not there and that she has had twins.

Padme begins to talk, drifiting in and out of consciousness. "Anakin, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry... Anakin, please... I love you..."

You see, Leia is looking up at Padme this whole time. It's really quite sad, Padme doesn't really *name* Leia. Or she doesn't say to Leia, "Your name is Leia."

EDIT: And about the off-topic droid thing: There's also a threepio look-alike at the very beginning of both ANH and TPM.

 

wooo for the kick ass monks

EDIT: there are so many possible ways that Leia could remember Padme, and Luke could not, we will have to wait until May to see how Lucas wants it to play out...im sure he will choose the best course

 

Um, did we not see a white protocol droid on Hoth, and another gold protocol droid on Cloudy City? Wouldn't that imply that 3PO's type are...common?

Lol. Yeah, but they're not all named C3PO, with a British acccent and travel around with little blue droid named R2. Anyhoo - I don't think it matter so much. Just curious.

 

LOL!! Thats also one thing that Im pondering about the Lars. Owen didnt even recognise 3PO in ANH when he had lived w/ them all those times before Anakin took it from them.

Maybe Owen Lars had a memory wipe also!

Back to the main topic, Jedi's on the PT were arrogant. I agree w/ someome pointing out about most of them dissing Anakin. Honestly, If that also happens to me I would really be pissed off. Since Qui-Gon has brought him to that Jedi Council, he didnt received anything from them except criticism.Qui-Gon who's the only one who really trusted him died and he's left w/ Obi-Wan who's remarks w/ him was THE BOY IS DANGEROUS Did Obi-Wan ever change his conception about Anakin? Ewan McGregor had stated that Obi-Wan trained Anakin at the best of his ability but he tends to look at him w/ wary.He doesnt trust Ani at all.Then Palps was there who made him feel that he's the "Chosen One" , who allowed him to be what he is.

The Jedi Order has failed bcoz of their conception about Love. Anakin once said, Attachment forbidden, but doesnt a "Master and Apprentice" relationship called attachments? And its an exception on the Jedi code? Thats a crap! Then why not excempt Anakin on that code since he's the Chosen One? (pls take not, this is just a sarcasm)

Look at how Obi-Wan handled Anakin and compared it on how he handled Luke? Thats very different. Obi-Wan became a Qui-Gon like master. He allowed Luke to do evrything on his own. He trusted Luke to use the Force according to what he feels. He's not like w/ Anakin saying you will never go to that excercises again Anakin, and you will learn your place young one

 

Obi-Wan learns his lesson from Anakin, thats why he treats luke different.

As for why Obi-Wan changed on his view of Anakin after Qui-Gon died, Qui-Gon is dead, and there is NO ONE ELSE to tell Obi-Wan or agree with Obi-Wan on how Anakin should be trained, or handled...he's at the council's whim. and the council has ALWAYS been wary of Anakin.

its been 10 years of 'watch out for that one obi-wan'
and nothing else. its not obi's fault, blame it on the council. They are the ones who screwed everything up in the PT in my mind (not that they didnt TRY to do everything right, they just didnt)

EDIT: and about the padawan master attachment...they aren't attatched as much 'assigned' together. Anakin has his missions and obi-wan has his. But ONCE AGAIN Anakin gets possessive and gets pissy that the 'team gets split up' in ROTS (as per spoiler I read)

 

Jedi's on the PT were arrogant
Miaka_Yuki, I totally agree!! TPM ObiWan called Anakin "another pathetic life form". Mace was terribly condecsending when he told Qui-Gon that Anakin would not be trained - right in from of the poor boy. Yoda chastized him for loving his mother, etc etc. Then in AOTC ObiWan is criticizing him constantly. When Anakin catches ObiWan in the speeder he gets criticized; when Anakin takes the 'short-cut' to catch Zam right before Anakin jumps out of the speeder he berates him for going "completely the wrong way" even though Anakin KNEW what he was doing and after Zam crashes instead of telling Anakin he did a good job he berates him for losing his lightsaber. Had no faith or trust in him. TOTALLY different from the OT ObiWan who tells Red5 (Luke) to put away his computer (when destroying the Death Star) and use the force. Trust your feelings. He would've never said that to Anakin. No wonder Anakin turned into a pissy brat. I don't blame him - if I was an awesome Jedi and everyone kept embarrassing me I'd suck up Palps compliments, too.

Ok off my soapbox - it's just a movie, just a movie, just a movie LOL.

 

another reason Obi-Wan was more gentle with Luke than with Anakin, is that obi-wan was constantly pulling Anakin BACK, he WAS to arrogant

and with Luke, he was constantly having to PUSH Luke, Luke wasnt confident in his abilities and was always needing re-assurance, it was an opposite approach

EDIT: ALSO i agree once again, the council was way to arrogant. they should have spotted anakins individual flaws (attatchment, not letting things go, etc.) and looked at that and not FED IT by talking down to him all the time, there are ways of constructive critiscm. only once in a blue moon when he did something right did he get a pat on the back, most the time it seemed like Obi-Wan getting cute with him over the fact that Anakin was right and he wasnt. kinda like 'stop showing me up'

 

FEED IT by talking down to him all the time, there are ways of constructive critiscm

Do you know what else bothered me in AOTC? How when Anakin was assigned to protect Padme and he was addressed "What do you think, Master Jedi" and Padme interrupts "oh, he's not a jedi, he's just a padawan".

Did she have to do that? That should've cured him of his crush on her right then & there. LOL
But he totally gets dissed in AOTC.

 

No, Anakin was not that too arrogant. But Anakin believes on what he could do. Obi-Wan knew what Anakin could do but he's putting him in place and shutting him in that made Anakin feel pissed most of the time. He always reminds Anakin that he's just his "padawan learner" Obi-Wan has a hard time admitting to Anakin that sometimes Anakin is right. he doesnt trust Anakin on his evry move. It seems that Anakin never learned.

Just imagine yourself on Anakin's shoes. You know you could do something but someone keeps on shuting you to do that. That eventhough you have done a good job all you get was criticism?

Then as what some spoliers stated, the Jedi Council never recognises him to be a member of the Council? What does Anakin need to be done just for them to trust and believes in him? Then theres Palps who whispers on his ears about how good he is etc... not knowing about his evil motives?

Anakin never had a father in his life. Obi-Wan who he ever had never been proud of him. And Padme whom he love so much might be lost any moment?

Now, if your on Anakin's shoes, wouldnt you be turned?

Hoenstly speaking, if thats me, I would be turmed much easily.

 

ya totally! whats the deal Padme? if I was Ani i woulda been like 'ya, okay MOM'

the more I think about it, man, I woulda become a Sith too! stinkin' Jedi...all went down hill after they lost qui-gon

 

the more I think about it, man, I woulda become a Sith too!



Good Good! (cackles) Your hate makes you stronger!!!

 

EDIT: wanted to give props to DarthMolly and whomever you were quoting as I've been saying similar too about the jedi in the PT.

Obi Wan has acted out every possible no-no regarding recklessness (jumping out windows) and arrogance that he chides Anakin about. There's also and obvious trace of arrogance/rebellion in the Dooku/Ginn/Kenobi?Skywalker training.

I'm sorry, I will forever say that the distinct way that Obi Wan stabs that whateveryoucallitbeast in AOTC was as un-ObiWan a moment as I have ever seen in SW and it was on purpose! GL is trying to make a point about the contrast of ObiWan in the PT vs OT. It's called characterization.

 

*eyes begin to blaze with fire*

I don't fear....

 

Do you know what else bothered me in AOTC? How when Anakin was assigned to protect Padme and he was addressed "What do you think, Master Jedi" and Padme interrupts "oh, he's not a jedi, he's just a padawan".

She is SO like Leia in this scene. But when Anakin takes that breath, and visibly controls himself, he reminds me of Leia, too.

This righ after the whole Padme's apt. "You will learn your place" fiasco, I would have been like..."You know what? Protect yourself. I'm the Chosen One here, you all can kiss my arse. Kill your own Sith Lord, I'm going to the Pod Races, to hell with the lot of ya."



Yeah, I'll learn my place. Right upside your head with a red lightsaber.

Ooooh. ahem. Sorry.

 

We were talking about how Anakin was a product if his surroundings and that he had no encouragement and it brought about his rebellion and switch to the dark side.