Michael Moore Discussion

I know you are probably saying to yourself, "Not another Moore thread! FOR THE LOVE..." Well with all of these Michael Moore threads that have been created concerning his films, I feel that it is time to discuss the other side of the coin.

Does Michael Moore Hate America? What is his motivation for making these films that slanderize President Bush, the American way of life, and everything else that IMO makes America great? Is it Patriotism? Political motives? Moral reasons? Is he trying to just get himself in the spotlight? Is he really just your average middle class citizen who is fighting for all of our rights?

This is what I would like to discuss in this thread.

I also want to mention the new film coming out that will partially answer some of these questions.
Click Here to read about this film and see the trailers. It looks very interesting and it also raises many good points about the possible character of Michael Moore.

 

I think he hates Bush's America. However, I do not believe his films "slanderize" Bush or there would have been lawsuits, no?

I can see that this thread is going to turn into loads of Moore defenders vs Moore bashers again, with long discussions about the opening scene of Bowling for Columbine. Oh well.

EDIT:

BTW, you saying that Michael Moore attacks things that in your opinion makes America great. He attacks things such as fixed elections, scandals etc.!
Whether or not they be correct, is it them that make America great in your opinion!?

 

Moore defenders vs Moore bashers

Isn't that what debate is all about? Discussing two or more sides of an issue with the hope of swaying one side to agree with the other? I think it is.

 

i think so.

i don't know why. his documentary is lies and misleading. Its funny becuase the whole point is to show that bush is lieing and misleading.

get the hell out if you don't like america. We would rather not have you here.

 

Yes, but there are many of these threads already, and are frequently becoming very similar.

 

I think Michael Moore cares about America very much,which is why he makes films that illustrate unpleasant truths that need to be dealt with.

 

Moore hates Bush.

Bush is not America.

 

Well said DeathStar.

Although he does hate the Democrats quite a bit as well as we see in Stupid White Mne. The only person he doesn't seem to have a go at is Ralph Nader.

Damn why won't this MM Hates America site let me view the trailer?

 

Moore has called America "the dumbest people in the world". I think he hates more than just Bush.

Edit: The trailers work fine for me. I'm not sure why you are having trouble. I think MMHA looks very "interesting".

 

Saying people are "dumb" does not infer hatred. IMO, he is trying to bring people out of what he sees as "dumbness" with his books and films: I presume "ignorant" would have been a better word for him to have used should that have been his point.

I may be wrong, but that is how it looks to me.

 

He's also said that he would like to see Bush paraded around in chains for all to see like some sort of a common criminal? Still think he's a nice guy? I'll tell you one thing, I wouldn't wish such treatment on my worst enemy.

 

coughGuantanamoBaycough

I didn't say he was a nice guy. I think Moore is trying to speak up, but much of the time he falls down due to sloppy research rather than being deliberately deceitful. IMO, even if only a 1/3 of the stats and statements in his movies and books are accurate, America still has a hell of a lot to worry about.

 

Hating your president is not the same thing as hating your country.

Plenty of people hated Nixon, and for good reason, IMHO.

BUT.......I think Moore has made it clear he does not merely despise politicians, but many of those things people consider distinct and unique about our country.

He also does so in his films without the proper historical context and contemporary insight into why these things are thought in such manner.

I think that's why I don't like him much. He's a typical "American hating" leftie who is insincere and disingenuous.

He's a hypocrite.

 

"He's a hypocrite"

Please back this up

 

That I agree with. We have a lot to worry about and a lot to fix in our country. But Moore's lies don't help anyone.

BTW, here is a quote from Mike Wilson's (MMHA's director) FAQ section:

Q: Hey @$$hole, who the F&!% are you to take on Michael Moore?
A: I?m a passionate guy with a camera who has a different perspective. Who the F&!% was Michael Moore to take on GM? I mean, really people, let?s be a little more tolerant of others? opinions? Just because I disagree with Moore doesn?t mean my opinion isn?t valid, does it? Of course, I?ve noticed that Moore?s fans may be some of the least tolerant people in the world. I?ve actually received death threats from people who claim that it?s important to be heard, but demand that I shut up? I guess the 1st Amendment only applies when we?re at a protest or are demanding redistribution of wealth?

I feel the same way as Mike Wilson by some reactions that I have received in this forum and in other places from some Moore supporters. Some of Moore's fans are as intolerant as they claim Moore's opponents are.

 

Thank you DarkGloom.

I don't condone some of the things Michael Moore says and does. But what I see from MM is that he is greatly upset with the leadership and direction of the US. Its not that he hates America, more that he cares enough to become angry when he feels that it is not all it can be. Kinda like when one gets angry/upset with a child that isn't living up to its potential.

Its often a blanket response from some in the far right wing (no one here specifically) that if you criticize Bush, you 'hate' America. Its a method designed to stifle dissent, because very few people want to be considered unpatriotic or appear hateful of their own country. I don't always agree with protestors, but that is their right, and part of what makes our country great. The idea of America is far bigger than any one individual, party or organization.

"To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." - Abraham Lincoln

 

I think he's very polarizing, and that's the opposite of what we need these days.

We need to understand each other and find common ground. His work leads to the opposite of that.

 

Moore's lies? I don't particularly think he is lying. I believe he is expressing an opinion, based on info that is sometimes innaccurate due to sloppy opinions. I wouldn't really call him a liar.

 

KW -

Agreed.

Moore's certainly not the only one at fault. Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, etc. to be sure have their share of the responsibility.

 

Farenheit 9/11 is a deeply patriotic movie. I think the millions of people who are cheering and appluading at the end of this movie are doing so because they know we're all implicated in what's wrong with the war on terror and our invasion and occupation of Iraq. We let fear rule our behavior and gave Bush the backing he needed to invade a sovereign nation on the thinnest of pretexts. If Moore says "Americans are dumb" then it's just a reflection of the fact that we all have to share responsibility for this immoral war.

 

Moore's certainly not the only one at fault. Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, etc. to be sure have their share of the responsibility.

That I agree with. Unforunately neither side is going to let up any time soon.

I just choose to not believe either side, even though I disagree with Moore and his agenda much more than I disagree with Limaugh or O'Reilly. The only one that I think is as radicaly as Moore is Savage. That's boy's a nutcase. So is Moore. They both annoy me to death.

Edit: Jabbadabbado, you have had so many links thrown at you that prove that Moore has lied repeatedly in his films. I'm starting to think that you would believe Moore if he called you a retard to your face. J/K

 

Well, I dunno...
http://www.arcataeye.com/top/020312top02.shtml

You know in my town the small businesses that everyone wanted to protect? They were the people that supported all the right-wing groups. They were the Republicans in the town, they were in the Kiwanas, the Chamber of Commerce - people that kept the town all white. The small hardware salesman, the small clothing store salespersons, Jesse the Barber who signed his name three different times on three different petitions to recall me from the school board. **** all these small businesses - **** 'em all! Bring in the chains. The small businesspeople are the rednecks that run the town and suppress the people. **** 'em all. That's how I feel."

Well if he hates Small Business - and Roger and Me proved he hats big Business - isnt that kind of all inclusive?

Just throwing some more fuel onto the fire...

 

I'm pretty sure that he would hate me then because I intend on making a living with a small business that I am going to be starting in the near future. Michael Moore, why doth thou persecuteth me?

 

Hmmmn. That's not nice, I generally like Moore but I want to start a business :'(

 

Jabbadabbadoo

Perhaps, but hwen folks like Richard Cohen are saying that this film is full of distortions.

Two items stand out.

The first:

Speaking just for myself, not only was I dismayed by how prosaic and boring the movie was - nothing new and utterly predictable - but I recoiled from Moore's methodology, if it can be called that.

The case against Bush is too hard and too serious to turn into some sort of joke, as Moore has done. The danger of that is twofold: It can send fence-sitters moving, either out of revulsion or sympathy, the other way, and it leads to an easy and facile dismissal of arguments critical of Bush.

During the Vietnam War, it seemed to me that some people supported Richard Nixon not because they thought he was right but because they loathed the war protesters. Beware history repeating itself.

The second quote:

The case against Bush need not and should not rest on guilt by association or half-baked conspiracy theories, which collapse at the first double take but reinforce the fervor of those already convinced.

The success of Moore's movie, though, suggests this is happening - a dialogue in which anti-Bush forces talk to themselves and do so in a way that puts off others.

Michael Moore's going to laugh all the way to the bank from the movie receipts and the ticket sales. Miramax is going to have their laughs, too.

Come November 3, 2004, however, I think Mr. Moore will be wondering why George W. Bush has won a second term. And Richard Cohen has probably answered why. People may not like Bush, but they ultimately will dislike his critics a lot more.