1. A Message For Everyone:

    TCW vs. Rebels debates are not allowed in the Television forum. As in, discussions that descend into TCW/Rebels bashing/gushing will be subject to Mod action. Contrasting the themes, story lines, characters, etc. between the shows is allowed (welcomed, even). "Versus" debates/arguments, however, are a deal-breaker.

Clone Wars Micro-series vs. TCW

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Togruta, Nov 14, 2012.

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Which Clone Wars show do you like better?

Clone Wars (2003) 82 vote(s) 37.8%
The Clone Wars (2008) 135 vote(s) 62.2%
  1. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The he was an alien warlord and his planet didn't get help from the Jedi (or whatever that was) and died in a shuttle crash thanks to San Hill and remade into Grievous with no emotions but hatred story was way better.
  2. Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ^ Yes it was. Just proves that sometimes Lucas doesn't understand his own universe.
  3. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    I beg to differ.

    I just asked my third grader. He said that the shuttle crash story was better.
  4. Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ^ Be sure to give him a five dollar bill from me! ;)
  5. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    As I already said:


    You still have not tried to explain how it could possibly be the case that people who dedicate their lives to staying emotionally balanced would somehow be more vulnerable to psychological warfare rather than less. They have the most training and discipline in not letting emotions impact them, therefore they have maximum protection from that tactic.
  6. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Fighting in a war isn't going to help the Jedi.
  7. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    It also isn't going to render them defenseless.
  8. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Seeing and feeling people die through out the galaxy isn't going to help the Jedi psyche. While it might not make them defenseless, it might be enough to knock them off their game. I am loath to use this example but look at Barris Offee. Even though we have no idea how, it drove her loopy.
    War is hell. So everyone getting through it unscathed doesn't seem possible to me.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  9. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    @Force Smuggler I didn't make any of the points you're arguing against, so I'm not sure what to tell you.
  10. Force Smuggler Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Aren't we arguing about Grievous being able or not being able to kill Jedi?
  11. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    @Force Smuggler yes, and specifically, my claim is about Jedi Masters. So, not whether the psyche of the Jedi is at all impacted but participating in the war, not whether they can ever be "knocked off their game" at particularly trying times, not whether war is hell, and not whether the Jedi should be able to wage it "unscathed" by it.

    Because a Jedi Master could have their psyche in a more vulnerable spot than usual because war is hell and still dominate a non-Force-user in a fight.
  12. Why_So_Serious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    @Dark Lord Tarkas As Grievous and Dooku put it in an early episode:
    For an example of how he could use this in combat against a Jedi High Council Master, check out 1:20-1:35 of this clip:



    The more off-balanced a Jedi Master is, the easier it is to kill them. The more pain and death there is, the more off-balanced a Jedi Master is. Grievous is very good at creating such an environment to go Jedi-hunting. And when that doesn't work? He's even better at escape plans or just calling in backup. Nothing says he has to fight fair against Jedi.
    Force Smuggler and Iron_lord like this.
  13. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    @Why_So_Serious why do you keep bringing up examples where Grievous tried and failed to kill a Jedi Master? You're just proving that even when Grievous does the best he can and everything goes in his favor, he's still never able to defeat a Jedi Master, which is exactly my point. Jedi Masters who are less balanced than usual still easily outmatch him.
  14. Why_So_Serious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    As I recall, Grievous has, within the confines of TCW, defeated and captured Jedi High Council Masters Eeth Koth:



    And Adi Gallia:



    So what if he didn't play fair against Eeth? Is the Force fair?
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  15. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    @Why_So_Serious this is getting tiresome. My statement was about Grievous versus a Jedi Master, which the Eeth Koth example does not depict. Also, my statement was about Grievous trying and failing to kill Jedi. It took Savage Opress, a Force user, to kill Adi Gallia in TCW. Once again, you're arguing against points I didn't make and bringing up points that actually bolster my argument.
  16. Sable_Hart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    I'm ok with Grievous getting the better of Jedi High Council members. Just as long as it's not by virtue of skill. Eeth vs. Grievous is a great example of that.
    Circular Logic likes this.
  17. Why_So_Serious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    Yes Grievous vs. Koth does. It shows Grievous' tactics of Jedi-fighting perfectly: wear them down with droids, kill their men, and if necessary call in backup. And Eeth Koth was a Jedi Master on the High Council at the time. So how is it not Grievous vs. a Jedi Master?

    And General Grievous is the general of an army, not just a mindless killing machine. It is sometimes more advantageous to take someone alive rather than kill them. And Grievous definitively got the better of her, on his own. She needed to be rescued by Plo Koon and his soldiers. He had her at his mercy. How does that not prove he had more skill and power than her, a Jedi Master?
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  18. Skaddix Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 5
    The problem is he should not be catching Jedi Masters especially ones on the council if he cannot crush Ashoka in a straight up fight. I mean yes I understand the concept of wearing them down but it still causes major cognitive dissonance when he is not steamrolling Ashoka.
    The Shadow Emperor likes this.
  19. anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of CT, SW Saga and Lucasfilm Ltd

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 8
    He should have been steamrolling Ahsoka.
  20. Why_So_Serious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    I've argued that for years.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  21. Todd the Jedi Mod and Inquisitor of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 6
    @Why_So_Serious @Dark Lord Tarkas Alright, I think this discussion has run its course. Just drop it and move on. Though Grievous is a recurring character in both TCW and the micro series, this thread is about more than just him.
    Darth Kickass likes this.
  22. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    @Why_So_Serious no, Grievous Intrigue does not depict Grievous versus Eeth Koth in a one-on-one fight (which is what I have been talking about), it depicts Grievous plus a team of droids versus Eeth Koth (meaning...follow this closely now...it does not impact the claim I was making). The video you posted of Adi Gallia likewise does not show Grievous single-handedly defeating her. It shows him landing one blow on her that sent her flying, just like he landed a blow on Obi-Wan that sent him flying right before Obi-Wan killed him.

    Since my claim is that Grievous (alone) could not kill a Jedi Master (alone), you would have to find an example in where this does happen to disprove my claim. Or even if I were to lower the bar to a clean defeat without death, you haven't provided examples of that either. Finding examples of other things Grievous has done - such as defeating a Jedi with the help of a team of droids or landing a blow on a Jedi - is not providing evidence against the point I am making, even if you do it a hundred more times. (Which I hope you don't...but it's already been several.)

    EDIT: Didn't see the mod warning until after I posted...so hopefully I am allowed to point out one last time that the evidence being brought to disprove my claim consists entirely of non sequiturs.
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Apr 29, 2014
  23. Todd the Jedi Mod and Inquisitor of SWTV

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 6
    It's a'ight. Word of advice, though- if you're writing a post for a good amount of time, it's best to copy it and refresh the page to see if there's been new posts in the meantime, and then post, making any changes if necessary. I do that almost all the time.
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  24. Heero_Yuy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    As AFS1983 said, Grievous SHOULD have done just that. It's obviously to anyone that it's TCW and ROTS that are the problem in how they made Grievous into a weakling.
  25. Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 5
    The films are the most important so whatever doesn't go with the films is what presents a problem, and Ep. III shows him with power levels relative to Jedi that make sense.