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ST Midi-chlorians in Episode VII

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by StarWarren, Jul 28, 2013.

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  1. FRAGWAGON

    FRAGWAGON Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 3, 2012
    This was not the first time Yoda was wrong.
     
  2. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    The PT sort of downgraded the lil Buddha.
     
  3. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    I highly doubt when they were making Empire and creating scenes meant to show us the core teachings of the Jedi that their intention was to show us "wrong" thinking. Somehow, that doesn't seem like it has the ring of truth to me.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  4. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    Yes, absolutely it did
     
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  5. fishtailsam

    fishtailsam Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 30, 2003
    which would have been fine if we had gotten a scene with yoda like

    yoda: hmmm, Ive learned alot from this whole baby-killing-chosen-one debacle. I'm much wiser now, and will impart this and more yet unlearned wisdoms onto Luke whenever he makes it around to seeing me. Welp, time to get into my tee-nincy rocket and woosh to degobah! Bye chewbacca! Watch out for moons!
     
    Summer Dreamer and Dra--- like this.
  6. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    I'm glad the rebellion decided to stick up for "crude matter" and oppose the genocidal ways of the empire.
     
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I highly doubt Obi-Wan was supposed to be lying when he said, "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father."
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  8. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    I think when Yoda spoke about enlightened beings he meant all beings (as all are connected to the force) and not only Jedi.
     
  9. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Wish you were here yesterday for the debate, Immortiss ? You just blew up my number of notifications :p
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  10. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    I think the MC's are a stroke of genius by a master storyteller. I used to be a basher of this idea, but Lucas has a way of chastening me into agreement. I like GL. He makes us all think, talk, debate, but we have to listen ourselves. No one else can do that for us. Isn't that what Leia said about Han?

    This is the Reason (science) vs. Faith debate and it has everyone divided and isn't that the point. If this idea isn't relevant to existence, I don't know what is. Scientifically Anakin has all the potential, but look what happens when he has no faith. What a tragedy. This is also the story of 'Forbidden Knowledge'. Adam biting the fruit, Prometheus stealing the fire and Dr. Frankenstein's Monster. It is quite simply the essence of Star Wars.

    I'm not going to repeat much that has already been said. No need. Believe what you will. But, Midi-Chlorians and the Force are not incompatible in my mind. Not for the SW universe or any other universe with intelligent life. Science can explain many things about the physical world, but there are some things that can only be taken by faith, and I think that's the point. Science also has a double edged sword. When applied, it can be both creative (Bacta) and destructive (The Death Star/Manipulation of MC's), depending on intent.

    The Body, Mind and Soul are all connected. The matter is crude, because it will not last. One must train and use the body to do the Will of the Force. It is a vehicle to a destination. It is of utmost importance to take care of the body, the physical, the housing of the spirit. When the coil is shed, the luminous being will be. Metamorphosis. I see only consistency. How will science be used to thwart our heroes in the ST...only time will tell.
     
  11. Beezer

    Beezer Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 5, 2013
    This is weak. You have twist and contort yourself to come up with some sort of way that they "can be consistent". If it has to be pain-stakingly explained to justify it, then it's a weak idea. The simple, undeniable fact of the matter is that the concept of midi-chlorians introduced in Episode 1 is a direct departure from what we already were taught about the Force. And that's why they just didn't go over well.
     
  12. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Immortiss
    Just because something is controversial doesn't mean it is deep. Twilight is controversial too and a lot of deep questions could be asked about it that do tie in with our daily lives. But does that make it "genius"? I don't think so.

    There are very few things Science can't explain. Pretty much all human behaviour is easily explained.

    I am also against mixing Star Wars with reality when it concerns the nature of the universe. It is great fantasy but in no way a profound answer to societies greatest questions.

    I agree with this, but I don't see much consistency. Luke was a chosen one of the force in the OT. After the PT he is only powerful because of Anakins force sensitive sperm. The force didn't chose him, no he has his Jedi potential because his father had sex.
     
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  13. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    A consistent story does not require work from the audience to make ti consistent
     
  14. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    No it isn't. It's another piece of the puzzle, but I never saw a contradiction when I first watched Episode I. It wasn't pain-stakingly explained, I did it rather simply and easily in my first post in this thread, CTC just didn't see how my view could match with his. We just had different assumptions, it was no work for me.
     
    Andy Wylde likes this.
  15. The-Eternal-Hero

    The-Eternal-Hero Jedi Knight star 4

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    Nov 3, 2012
    I doubt this movie will pause long enough for anyone to even say a word as long as "midichlorians" . . .
     
    Andy Wylde, FRAGWAGON and Immortiss like this.
  16. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    Take what you will. My thoughts are clear.
     
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  17. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    It's not really "forcing" them to fit into the OT era if Lucas already had them in mind during the OT era. He openly discussed Midichlorians as early as 1977.

    And, his explanation would probably be of benefit in this thread:

     
  18. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    There is a whole thread about that in the Saga section. Lucas has had lots of ideas about Star Wars, some he used, some he didn't. Some he didn't, but then revisited like this midiclorian nonsense.

    One thing that is clear just by looking at Lucas's body of work and his interview history, he's anything but consistent. The man is a constant contradiction. And he's disingenuous as well. One of the things being discussed in that thread was how he essentially retconned the history behind this idea.

    Not a model of consistency.
     
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  19. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    I guess Han should really be a lizard then. Lucas thought about that too. Conclusion: Maybe not every idea Lucas toys with is worth an inclusion into the saga.

    I'm waiting for force sensitive bowel bacteria. Did you know an average human has 1-2 kg of them in his/her body? And that we wouldn't survive without them?
     
  20. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    Now why didn't we cut to the chase sooner. A Chorus of Disapproval...right to the source. Thanks for this. Research must be part of your profession.:)
     
  21. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Aug 19, 2003
    I've simply been on these boards too long... :p
     
  22. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    You are going to want to take a look at this thread before you jump for joy about that point

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...t-that-anyone-could-learn-the-force.50012489/
     
  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    It's funny because he gets the role of Mitochondria wrong too. Their main role is energy production (in the form of ATP), and not helping the cells divide.
     
    Immortiss likes this.
  24. WatTamborWoo

    WatTamborWoo Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 22, 2011
    This is a good reminder about the purpose of the midichlorians "they are necessary for us, we are necessary for them".

    The PT explicitly makes clear the "symbiotic" aspect of the force that was already present in the OT in Empire: life creates the force, it "binds" things together. When Yoda says we are not just crude matter he is saying that we are also our "relations" with other things which is not matter. This is made more explicit in the PT. For example Obi Wan tells the Gungans that they form a "symbiotic circle" with the Naboo. Thus each group are not merely themselves alone but are "more" in their relations with the other group. Qui-Gonn says the midichloarians are symbionts with life forms forming a relationship of symbiosis for mutual advantage. Thus what things are, are "more" through their relations.
     
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  25. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Symbiosis in biology is not more good or bad than parasitism.
     
    Immortiss likes this.
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