CT Midi-chlorians were first conceived by George Lucas as early as 1977?

Nope. When the book was being written, Lucas had insisted that that passage about Midichlorians be added to that section.

 

revisionist George then...lol. i guess the best proof would be a video interview in 1977 or an old physical article of the time period.

i guess maybe he had the concept but not the actually word.

 

Opps...guess its the same discussion as this in the PT section

"Are the midi chlorians older than we think?"

time lock lock this forum and do better searches....lol

 

I hated the concept of mid-chlorians when I first saw the PT but over the years I love what they added to the mythos and I get now why Lucas added it. He really wanted to show the symbiotic relationship between living beings and it truly takes nothing away from the mystery of "the force" itself. It's just a way to show how the universe works. Mitochondria in many ways are another "living" thing inside us.

 

I feel like it stills take away from the mystery, though. Declaring what was once a "binding energy" as something formed from microscopic lifeforms definitely gives me a more concrete image of what the Force is. And getting more information about something inherently takes away the mystery behind it--like how learning that mitochondria are producing the energy within our cells takes away the mystery behind how our cells create and use power.

 

The Force is still binding energy. The Midichlorians are how a Force user can become connected to the Force, become aware that it exists and thus can use it. Some have more than others, which is how one is able to gain a stronger connection through time and training. Han has Midichlorians, but not enough that he could become aware of the Force now matter how hard he tried to use it. Anakin had the most within him which allowed him to do things far easier than it would for someone line Obi-wan, who had to work at it in the same manner that we see Luke and Ezra.

 

I wasn't saying that the Midichlorians took away from the fact that it's binding energy. I was just trying to say that explaining that energy with regards to a very specific creature that can be measured in the blood of a being takes away from some of the mystery behind it for me. It simply adds information, which counteracts the definition of a mystery ("something that is difficult or impossible to understand or explain") because it makes the Force easier to understand and explain.

 

Living beings create the Force. Big and small, sentient or not. Midi-chlorians are not the Force, but the biological way in which living beings interact with the Force. The more you have, the easier it is to tap into it (thus increasing your potential). The Force was explained in ANH (and expanded upon in TESB), so if there was any mystery about it as some like to argue, it was gone with those two movies.

How can you have mystery on something you didn't even know existed?

 

I feel like there was and is still a ton of mystery behind the Force, though (regardless of whether you count Midichlorians or not). I was just saying Midichlorians took away more of that mystery--but there's still definitely a ton left to discuss regarding its origins, intelligence, and will.

I wasn't very clear there, that's my bad. I meant the mystery for the Force decreases as you learn about Midichlorians (just like how learning about mitochondria, even if you didn't know about them before, takes away from the mystery of a cell).

 

Maybe in a future film Darth Doofenshmritz will make a Midichlorianator to harvest the midichlorians of those who aren't using them and inject them into himself! He would have bragging rights as having the highest count and maybe take over the galaxy in the process! But of course he will fail because our hero will always find the self destruct button. "Curse you Jerry the Jeidpuss!"

I accept that Midichlorians are canon, as an interesting factioid told in a cautionary tale. The story of the Force is better told as a story of letting go of the conscious self, and believing in something unseen that guides your actions and obeys your commands.

JMHO.

 

But it doesn't. Midi-chlorians merely expand upon a notion that was introduced and explained from the very beginning (and was expanded upon in TESB, RotJ and TPM). Its inherent connection to living beings and the reinforcement of the symbiosis between life and the Force. One

The mystery of the Force decreases as you watch ANH and TESB.

That's not the story of the Force, it's how you use the Force. And it remains the same. Having legs in and on itself doesn't make you run. You need the will to run (and the belief that you can do it).

 

I would argue that to "expand upon a notion" would remove mystery behind that notion. I'm not saying that's bad here, I was just trying to clarify that it sounds like Midi-chlorians do reduce mystery in the Force because they expand understanding of the Force.

You're absolutely right. But if that's true, then, obviously, the mystery of the Force decreases during TPM, which brings us back to my original point--we can't say that the idea of Midi-chlorians "truly takes nothing away from the mystery of 'the force' itself." Whether taking away that mystery is bad or good is a completely different argument to have, but we should understand that the concept of Midi-chlorians reduces mystery. That's all I'm saying here.

 

Come again? In ANH Kenobi briefly mentions the "dark side" of the Force but never elaborates on that. In ESB we learn a few more details about the effects of the dark side, but that's about it. What sounded like a broad description at first (in ANH) turned out to be a bit more complicated, but the mystery remained intact.

YODA And well you should not. For my
ally in the Force. And a powerful
ally it is.

Interesting, he didn't mention midichlorians as his ally...

 

JQ_Ronan: Then what you're arguing is that knowledge reduces mystery. Well, I don't argue that.

He still explained the Force.

The dark side is just part of the Force. And we learned a lot about the Force in TESB. My statement remains true.

Because midi-chlorians are not the Force. But no matter how many times one says it, people will ignore it.

 

I quite understand what you are saying. Midichlorians are biological factors that determine the potential amount of the Force a user can use. Right?

Has anyone seen and loved Gattaca? What do you think Anton's midichlorian count would have been in the GFFA? Vincent's? Who would you rather see as a Jedi? Who would never have got the chance to be one, and who had the spirit to overcome the low count and probably the Sith in the process?

 

They determine how strong of a connection a being has to the Force. Has nothing to do with Force feats or power.

 

OK. I think we're pretty close I'm trying to agree with you that Midichlorians aren't the Force.

Do you see the Gattaca comparison I was trying to make?

 

Yes, but it doesn't apply. It's not a matter of genetics. The body and the "spirit" are one. Using my previous analogy, while legs alone don't make you run, you still need them to do so.

Who would I rather see? Whoever is able to accept and do the job properly. Everybody has midi-chlorians, some more than others which makes the process of taping into the Force easier. But midi-chlorian concentration is not the only factor.

 

I still believe midichlorians are an outdated concept in my head canon. I like the idea of the force being a concept conceived by spirituality rather than science. So I therefore think the idea of the force evolved once the Jedi order was destroyed, hence why Tarkin et al. and Vader's discussions in ANH (and to an extent Ben and Luke's) speculated it being an 'ancient religion' rather than ground-breaking science. Either way, this is my head canon and it appeases both sides of the argument in my opinion.

 

About the quote that the OP is referring too, JW Rinser admitted that the mention of midi-chorians was added when the book was being written in 2006-ish.
Lucas' original force quote read as follows:

The midi-chlorian passage was added somewhere in the middle, I don't quite remember where.

 

The parallels I see with Gattaca and the blood test from Vincent's heel sealing his fate (or so everyone thought) and the Midichlorian based screening process in Star Wars are so strong that I can't unsee them. I'm not criticizing that it happened in the story, not at all, I think it was George Lucas making a similar point that Andrew Niccol made. JMHO

 

I don't mind the midi chlorians. I think many people have issues with the blood test scene in TPM.
Had just that one scene been left out I wonder if people's perception would have been different?

Because Qui-gons explanation to anakin about the midi chlorians is still good.

My personal opinion is that I would have done away with the blood test scene.

 

I understand your viewpoint. It sure would have softened the image that the test combined with selecting toddlers and babies to become candidates based on what that test said presented. But I actually think Lucas put that in there to spur the ethical questioning that it has produced.

 

I fail to see how they ruined the mystical aspect of the force? Remove the blood test scene and the midi-chlorians become something slightly different, in my opinion.

1. The Force:

2. midi-chlorians:

The midi-chlorians are not the force...clearly explained by Qui-gon:

3. "When you learn to quiet your mind"....related to TESB Yoda training Luke

calm/piece = quiet your mind ?

4. "They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force."

controls your actions = will of the Force ?

Ask yourself:
Why does the force partially control your actions?
Why does the force obey your commands?

Conclusion (mine anyway):

What we know is that The Force is an energy field created by all living things and the midi-chlorians are a microscopic lifeform.

Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist and Therefore, no life = no Force

The Force is still mystical to me....Lucas just added that a microscopic lifeform residing in all living cells communicates with the force through oneself.

"When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you...telling you the will of the Force. "

Tommy gee, from Qui-Gon's point of View, explained/reworded it in this way:

I hope I explained it...lol