Saga Midichlorians and blood transfusions

Initially his sensitivity didn't manifest itself - but eventually it did. Dorsk 82 is a Jedi Knight in the NJO.

 

As has been mentioned, noone ever tries to boost their power by injecting blood with a higher concentration of midi-chlorians, so transfusions likely do not affect ones MC count.
Possibly, there's a momentary disturbance that quickly evens out as the injected midi-chlorians adjust their numbers to their new host. If their numbers are too great, the excess MCs might simply die and if they're too few, they might reproduce.

 

The "Jedi Apprentice" series and the follow-ups in "Jedi Quest" and "Last Of The Jedi" did an arc with a scientist who was trying to inject the blood of Jedi into non Force users in order to see if it could be done. She wasn't successful in JA, but I think that held over to the other two book series.

 

Source:Wookiepedia


Around 42 BBY, the Sith Lord Darth Plagueis and his Sith apprentice Darth Sidious were able to shift the Force and tip it towards the dark side after months of intense meditation. Plagueis sought to manipulate the midi-chlorians—microscopic lifeforms which lived symbiotically within all living things and allowed those with sufficient numbers of midi-chlorians to touch the Force—and use them to gain power over life and death. He was able to resurrect the Bith Darth Venamis (whom he had been using as a test subject for years) using only the power of the Force. Using his newfound power to heal his own body, Plagueis decided to take his powers further and reached out to the midi-chlorians across the galaxy in order to gain dominance over them, but the Force resisted his efforts and refused. In response, the midi-chlorians acted of their own accord and conceived a child within the Human slave Shmi Skywalker.[25]

Still, anakin was a biproduct. But Plagueis "created" him

 

Interesting. Before I read that, I would have assumed that Plagueis DID create Anakin. After reading that description, I actually am of the assumption that the midichlorians took it upon themselves to conceive Anakin to spite Plagueis efforts.

 

Also in the "Legends" stories, I remember Dooku tried to give grevious force powers by infusing him with Sifo-Dyas blood in one story.

 

This story:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Eyes_of_Revolution

though in general, the stories in that book (Visionaries) were treated as Infinities. Still, Maul's TCW look fits fairly well with Old Wounds - even if the comic itself implies that this is the first time since TPM that Maul and Obi-Wan have met..

 

OK, so if you're not force sensitive already, it wouldn't help to get midichlorian-laced blood. What if you're mildly force sensitive? Can you enhance your power with transfusions?

 

no i don't think so.

 

Really this thread highlights the problem with making the Force measurable by your blood. I understand why Lucas did it, because he wanted a way of showing that Anakin had the potential to be more powerful than any other Force user, but its a really poor way of illustrating this point. Obi-Wan tells Luke, "Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together.... A Jedi can feel the force flowing through him." That's a pretty good explanation of what the Force is. The Force goes from being a spiritual energy field that everyone is part of to a measure of how many little organisms you have in your blood. It cheapens the Force and is just a lazy way of explaining things.

 

It never needed any more explaining did it. We managed for over 20 years knowing that the ability to tap into this energy field was something that only a few people had the power to do. Why couldn't they have sensed the force being strong in Anakin as they seemed to do with other force users throughout the OT? And then Anakin could back this up with his abilities.

Quantifying it by adding midichlorians in to the mix just seemed unnecessary for me, and after that it was never mentioned again in the PT so was that due to it being a bad idea?

 

There is more to it than just that. First, why he added it.

"We also get into this thing of what are Midichlorians, how they work which advances a little bit of the story of the Force, and how does the Force work, how we come to know the Force which is part of Anakin’s training in learning to become a Jedi. And take the idea of the Force one step further. The Midichlorians are kind of a side issue. Not in a sort of spiritual, metaphysical part of the Force, but the more practical, biological, physical part of the Force, or how we come to know the Force, which has to do really with the genetics of why some people have more in tune to the Force than others."

--George Lucas, TPM DVD Commentary.

"It was a virgin birth in an ecosystem of symbiotic relationships. It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call Midichlorians. They're kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different animal, that live inside every single cell and allow it to live, allow it to reproduce, allow life to exist. They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force."

--George Lucas, Feburary 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, page 117.


Then there's the other reasons for why it was introduced.

"The Midichlorians have brought Anakin into being as “the chosen one” who will balance the universe. The mystery around that theory is that we don’t know yet whether the chosen one is a good or a bad person. He is to bring balance to the Force; but at this point, we don’t know what side of the Force needs to be balanced out."

--George Lucas, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

"There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith Lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.


There was a greater reason for it, which ties into Anakin's downfall.

PALPATINE: "Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise.he could use the Force to influence the Midichlorians to create life... He had such a knowledge of the dark side. He could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."

 

Cheers, I couldn't remember any other reference to it off the top of my head.

 

I personally find the concept of midichlorians quite interesting – especially since it combines two of my favourite subjects: physiology and Star Wars.

IMO there is no “midichlorian mess”. Sure, the concept is treated very superficially in the movies (which is only natural since Lucas was telling a story and not holding a scientific presentation) and therefore many questions arise, but I think these can mostly be explained.

In TPM we learn four basic facts about midichlorians:

1) they connect living organisms to the Force
2) they are microscopic life forms
3) they live inside every living being’s cells
4) their concentration can be measured with a blood sample

1) is irrelevant to your question so I’ll focus on the others – particular 3) and 4):

Since Qui-Gon is giving a quick, simplistic answer to Anakin’s question I don’t take his statement to mean that midichlorians literally live inside every cell, but only in specific cells (likely those with long a lifespan) depending on the organism. Based on the fact that Force sensitive’s use of the Force (at least mostly) relies on conscious effort one can argue that in humans/humanoids the midichlorians are located in the neurons.

But if the midichlorians are only present in the neurons how can a blood sample be used to measure their concentration? Well, since the analysis method of the machine being used for this purpose is never explained, I’ll argue that the machine does not actually count the individual midichlorians, but rather what is measured is merely a biochemical marker specific for midichlorians (like a waste product from the midichlorian metabolism, for instance) and which correlates with the concentration of midichlorians (the same way the concentration of D-dímer in the blood correlates to embolism and deep vein thrombosis).

So my answer to your question is: No, it will not.

 

To answer the OP's question.

No a blood transfusion would not do much.
Why? Midis exists in all cells, that is what the film say.
So if you loose two liters of blood, that would be a tiny fraction of the total number of cells in your entire body.

So if Force power is determined by the average conc of midis in all your cells. Having a tiny number of cells with a higher count won't change the average number very much.
To change that, you would have to replace a significant fraction of all your cells and that isn't very practical.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

In SW, there are many references to "the will of the force". Is it possible that midichlorians are a bi-product of the "will of the force"? What if, when the "will of the force" decides a being will be "strong with the force", it creates a large number of midichlorians in that being, like a beacon or buoy? That would make sense to me, because if it is simply the number of midichlorians that give a being the force, when a being loses a limb or lots of blood, the concentration of midichlorians MUST increase. And that cannot be, because in TPM when Qui-Gon tests Anakin's blood, he says the concentration is higher than Yoda's, inferring that the concentration never changes. So, maybe midichlorians are nothing but a simple marker?

If there are any obvious fallacies in my argument, please point them out and explain thoroughly.

Thanks, Fives

 

First the question is, what is the important number, the conc of mids per cell or the total number of midis in the entire body?
If the former then a loss of limb would do nothing as the conc doesn't change. If the latter, then the bigger you are the more powerful you are in the Force. Which would seem to go against what Yoda says in ESB.
So the former then? But this creates another problem. If the midis in one cell can co-operate and create a stronger link to the Force, why can't all the midis in the body do the same?

About the will of the Force. If Anakin was created by the Force and the Force created him to kill Palpatine. If the Force can change the number of midis in a person then there is no need for Anakin. The Force just tells the midis in Palpatine's body to die. He will weaken and eventually die once his midi count reaches zero. Simple.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

The only things we know about Midichlorians, outside of what Qui-gon said, is what Serenity told Yoda.

YODA: "What is this place?"

SERENITY: "All that surrounds us is the foundation of life, the birthplace of what your science calls Midichlorians, the foundation of what connects the Living Force and the Cosmic Force. When a living thing dies, all is removed. Life passes from the Living Force into the Cosmic Force and becomes one with it. One powers the other. One is renewed by the other."

The planet where Yoda meets the Priestesses is one of the worlds where life began and Midichlorians first came into existence. Life first began here.

 

Yeah I understood this also.

 

I don't think a transfusion would do anything. People aren't strong in the Force because they have more midichlorians, they have more midichlorians because they are strong in the Force. Every being has a connection to the Force because life creates the Force, thus every being has midichlorians. Jedi have more because of how connected they are to the Force. Some have a natural affinity for the Force, whereas others have to work to get a stronger connection, which is probably why the Jedi don't train just anyone. Anyone can become a Jedi, it's just a lot harder if you don't have a naturally strong connection and while someone with a weak connection might find it easier to train as a Sith, no Sith is going to train someone weak in the Force as even with the Dark Side, it would take a long time and the Sith are interested in strength and power.

If Luke gave Han a transfusion, the transfusion wouldn't strengthen Han's connection to the Force. The midichlorians don't decide how strong a connection is, they just reveal it. Likewise, if you clone a Jedi, there's no guarantee that Jedi clone would be as strong in the Force as the original as it's the body that's being cloned, not the mind or spirit. The clone, while genetically identical to the original, would ultimately be a separate individual and have it's own unique connection to the Force, just like every other lifeform. In fact, it's possible that some of the clone troopers were strong in the Force.

 

I would not be surprised to find out the new movies using cloning to bring back a Force sensitive character like Vader or Sidious or someone we never heard of. Or just genetically tinkering with midiclorians for whatever reason, even to sustain one's own life if say a character is a cyborg or something or non-Force sensitives want to be Force sensitive, maybe something like the Shadow Troopers cept no kyber crystals on their chests or something artificially infused with the Force, like Reborn warriors.

 

Clearly, this issue is of the utmost importance and requires further study.

Honestly, though, never thought about it, and it really does just show how nonsensical it is for a fantasy movie to include cellular magic receptors in your blood (and yes, the Force essentially is magic with some New Age spirituality thrown on top of it).

 

The fact that your question is technically plausible is exactly why Midichlorians were a bad idea to begin with. This type of question was bound to come of it eventually.

 

As I already said, it was addressed and revealed not to be an issue. That's why Vader, who had his injuries, didn't receive injections and as noted, Grievous also had it done and did nothing for him.

 

I actually really like the concept of Midichlorians, and also like the fact that it isn't explained in-depth... since it allows fans to come up with whatever explanation suits them best. Perhaps midichlorians are more numerous in Force sensitives because people who are Force sensitive are a more ideal environment for them to live in... not because they cause Force sensitivity.

Regarding everything discussed above, though, here's my take on it:

Let's say that there is a certain limit to how much space a cell has for holding midichlorians. At most a cell can hold perhaps 20,000, which is 100% of its capacity. A person who has 10,000 midichlorians per cell has only 50% of that capacity filled, while the rest is their own regular cell tissue.

Similarly, you can have a car-sized brick composed of 50% steel and 50% Styrofoam, distributed in an even mixture. What happens if you have an aircraft carrier-sized brick made from the same 50/50 mixture? Both bricks will float equally well in water, because the Styrofoam-to-steel ratio is the same between both bricks. Even if we cut our brick in half, the ratio of Styrofoam in the remaining portion of the brick doesn't change--it's still a 50/50 mixture--so it will be just as buoyant as before.

When it comes to blood transfusions: a 150 lb. man is generally said to have around 8 pints of blood, right? When it comes to water, 8 pints of volume = about 8.8 pounds of weight, which would be about 1/17th of the man's total weight. That might give you a general idea of how much of a person's body is made up of blood. Even if you replace every single drop of his blood, that's a very small fraction of all the cells in his body, and the other 96% still has the old ratio with few midichlorians. He might actually be more Force-sensitive, but to such a small degree that he wouldn't notice any difference. And since Jedi and the like spend years training specifically to sense the Force more effectively, someone with no prior experience would also not be in the best position to notice the subtle difference.