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PT Midichlorians-why is this so badly bashed?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Slowpokeking, Apr 7, 2014.

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  1. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 21, 2012
    I could see some flaws of PT, but I don't get it about this one. This thing explained how the Force works and how the Jedi pick their padawans, it's also from the original concept. Why people hate it so much?
     
  2. Brandon Rhea

    Brandon Rhea Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 26, 2004
    It adds science into a concept that was otherwise mystical and spiritual. The Force is one of those things where less is more; it doesn't need to be explained.
     
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  3. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    What's so mystical and spiritual about "an energy field created by all living things"? Sounds like science to me.
    What's truly mystical about it is that it has a will. That idea was introduced by TPM.
     
  4. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    The thing I don't like about them is that it introduces biological elitism.
     
  5. Brandon Rhea

    Brandon Rhea Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 26, 2004

    No one ever really took "energy field" as being science. When you take into account the idea of the Force being strong in someone, "may the Force be with you," and so forth, it was very much a spiritual concept. It was about people being connected with nature. The Phantom Menace, for better or for worse, changed that by outright adding biology to that.

    Also true. It changed Jedi from being something accessible to übermensch. Even Lucas, during the writing of Jedi, said that it was something anyone could do. He compared it to yoga and karate. It was something that anyone could do, but it took extreme dedication, so only a few ended up doing it. Those few, or at least some of them, became Jedi Knights.
     
  6. ObiAlKenobi

    ObiAlKenobi Jedi Knight star 3

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    Mar 10, 2012
    Excellent response, Sir.
     
  7. TheChosenSolo

    TheChosenSolo Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 9, 2011
    Never is it either stated or implied that midi-chlorians are what conduct the Force. Qui-Gon explains them as life-forms that communicate the knowledge and the will of the Force to all life. Qui-Gon says this: "Without them, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force." Read, the Force would still exist without them.
     
  8. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Mar 10, 2005
    jedimasterbac: I'm not saying that the Force isn't spiritual, only that it was scientifically explained already in ANH. There are spiritual and mystical overtones to it throughout the whole saga, even when Qui-Gon speaks of midi-chlorians, but an energy field that's produced by lifeforms does, to me, sound like a biological phenomenon.
    When you say that noone ever took it that way, you are, I'm sorry to say, dead wrong.

    Cushing's Admirer: I understand what you mean, but I take it more as different people having different talents. In real life, anyone can sing, but few have what it takes to be an opera tenor. In the GFFA, anyone can learn how to use the Force, but few have what it takes to be a Jedi.
     
  9. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Aug 6, 2013
    Without them, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force." Read, the Force would still exist without them.
    -----------------

    meaning the force would be worthless, since it wouldn't be accessable.
     
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  10. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost star 7

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    Jun 8, 2006
    Lulu: I also get what you are saying but believe you are incorrect. I know I CAN'T sing.
     
  11. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Our arms, hands, feet etc. would be worthless without neural cells. What's the point?

    I always find it strange (not directed at you) when people talk about midi-chlorians like some sort of "third party". They are an inherent part of the body of living beings in that galaxy with a certain function. There are living beings and there is the Force. Midi-chlorians don't fly independently through space, having fun and writing What'sApp messages.
     
  12. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    During the classic era I never had the impression that Force sensitivity was open to anyone.
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    "The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it, I have it, and ... my sister has it."

    I can see why people might that that most people, by contrast, don't "have it".
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001

    Not quite.


    "We also get into this thing of what are Midichlorians, how they work which advances a little bit of the story of the Force, and how does the Force work, how we come to know the Force which is part of Anakin’s training in learning to become a Jedi. And take the idea of the Force one step further. The Midchlorians are kind of a side issue. Not in a sort of spiritual, metaphysical part of the Force, but the more practical, biological, physical part of the Force, or how we come to know the Force, which has to do really with the genetics of why some people have more in tune to the Force than others."

    --George Lucas, Star Wars-The Phantom Menace: The Annotated Screenplays, 1999.

    This is based on earlier statements from Lucas back during the early writings of ANH.

    "It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different."

    --George Lucas, The Making Of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind The Original Film.

    Lucas seems to have intended this for Yoda and in his description for Palpatine, his appearance was supposed to be that he was evolving into something else, having lived for a long time. Notably his forehead. It also goes back to his second draft of ANH, where the Jedi Bendu was founded by a holy man named Skywalker who discovered the Force and passed his knowledge onto his children and they passed it on to their children and so on. When developing Anakin's origins, he revisited and modified his original ideas.

    "It was a virgin birth in an ecosystem of symbiotic relationships. It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call Midichlorians. They're kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different animal, that live inside every single cell and allow it to live, allow it to reproduce, allow life to exist. They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force. Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin. I don't want to get into specific terms of labeling things to make it one religion or another, but basically that's one of the foundations of the hero's journey."

    --George Lucas, Feburary 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, page 117.

    "There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith Lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

    --George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.

    The rest of that is how the work and how it ties to Anakin's story. Lucas used it to seduce Anakin to the dark side, thus tying it all together.
     
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  15. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Aug 6, 2013
    Samnz: you seem to misunderstand

    without midichlorians no-one would have knowledge of the force,

    so even though the force does indeed exist without them, it's rather pointless

    you can't play a violin without the bow
     
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  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    "Life creates it, makes it grow" and "without the midchlorians life would not exist".

    Implication - if there were no midichlorians - there would be no life - and thus, there would be no Force, since life creates the Force.
     
  17. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Aug 6, 2013
    which begs the question why not everything is force sensitive

    are mushrooms that grow on the vaporators capable of using the force?
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    To quote Yoda in TCW: Ambush:

    "Clones you may be, but the Force resides in all creatures. Use it you can, to quieten your mind".

    It may be that everything has a limited ability to use the Force - but being sensitive to it - being able to feel it - is what's rare.
     
  19. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 21, 2012
    Because their connection is not strong enough to make them force sensitive.
     
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  20. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Jedi Padawan star 3

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    Aug 6, 2013
    it was a rhetorical question :p
     
  21. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    I was fine with midichlorians until they became Anakin's father.
     
  22. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 21, 2012
    More likely someone used it to create life.
     
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  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    No difference. Where was Anakin's father?
     
  24. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Jedi Master star 5

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    Sep 21, 2012
    His apprentice killed him in his sleep.
     
  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    [face_sick]

    Exactly.
     
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