PT Midichlorians-why is this so badly bashed?

I don't think I like a half-Muun Anakin Skywalker.

 

Why do so many equate age to creepy? Old men are NOT by virtue of age 'creepy'.

 

I didn't say it was AFS, I asked why you were making your implication.

 

Whatever happened was not normal; TPM makes that sufficiently clear. Shmi just having sex like anyone else would not be something she would be unable to explain. It's either the Sith or the Force. It's Lucas' version of "conception by the gods" in Greek/Roman mythology.

 

I have pictures, AFS. I'm just sayin.

 

They could let Ralph Fiennes play Plagueis.

 

I think one of the things that made the OT so charming and fun was the ease at which the story was told. Things were rather simple, and almost anyone could understand what was going on. The Force was just the Force. That's all there was to it, though we knew that it ran in families as explained in ROTJ. With the PT, things were far more detailed and convoluted. With the whole subplot of the Trade Federation taxation and trade routes, and the Force actually being created by midichlorians, and the behind-the-scenes machinations of this Sidious persona that we don't know much about, it's easy to see why things like midichlorians weren't received too warmly.

 

for years people wanted to know more about the force. when they got more info they didn't like it and cried about it.

 

As a suggestion...

Even a layman's understanding of Quantum Physics might be beneficial in bridging the gap between those fan groups that prefer to keep things more material and scientific versus those who like or who can accept some of the mystical-fantasy story elements in their explanation of the Force.

 

The PT said no such thing.

 

Midichlorians are life. Life creates the Force. Thus, if midichlorians were the first form of life (makes some sense, if all other life cannot exist without them) then - that would mean that they created the Force.

 

To be fair, such a thing would have to exist, as Luke's comment about the force being strong in his family, would indicate that force awareness is an inheritable trait. By the way, it was never stated that midichlorians created the force, merely that they allow one to connect to it more easily.

 

True. The phrase "Without the midichlorians, life would not exist" does raise some interesting questions about the biological history of life in the SW-verse though.

 

Given that Lucas used mitochondria as a guideline template for Midichlorians, I'm going to hazard a guess and say that they serve a similar function. Thus all living beings need Midichlorians because they're part of the DNA that is life.

 

Midichlorians don't bother me anymore. I got me some penicillin and now I can love again.

 

​

"But what about maxi-chlorians?"​

 

You've just helped explain why I love the prequels as I do.

Something in one of the quotations earlier provided by darth-sinister is also calling to me...

The middle condition -- "or is he simply created by the midi-chlorians to bring forth a prophecy" -- is most interesting to me.

Perhaps because it's sandwiched between extremes, perhaps because Lucas used the word "simply" (i.e., this is the most basic idea we should first contend with)...

Perhaps because I recently re-watched an episode of "Star Trek: The Next Generation", AKA Gene Roddenberry's second shot at Star Trek, AKA The Prequel Trilogy, in which Wesley Crusher, AKA Jar Jar Binks, accidentally -- *cough*, "Uh oh! Big booma!" -- lets loose two nanobots, and then they haplessly colonize the ship's computer core, wreaking havoc on basic computer functions, until the Enterprise crew is able to find a way to communicate them -- via Data, who else? (Threepio to the Ewoks: "Boom!") -- and a peace is brokered once a balanced solution is found (they are given their own planet / sanctuary (moon) on which to survive and flourish).

That is significant because it got me re-thinking about the nature of the midi-chlorians. Like Wesley's nanobots, they could well have evolved a sort of collective consciousness, and when Qui-Gon tells Anakin that they continually speak to lifeforms endowed with their presence, that might be the midis' way of communicating their desires for a cleaner universe, in which they are able to fully prosper alongside the macroscopic lifeforms they inhabit (which may or may not accord with the Force's "will" or "wishes" -- assuming the Force even exists and has such attributes). In other words, bad use of the Force, when the galaxy goes wrong and leads to self-immolating Jedi and Sith empires, reduces the midi-chlorians' own well-being, stunting their growth and reducing the sanctity and symphony of their own consciousness, which means the midi-chlorians have desires and aims independent of the Force, yet commensurate with a broader sense of harmony and interconnectedness in the larger galaxy.

Et voila, one superbeing, designed to clean up the mess, either willfully or concomitantly created by the midis in a state of duress. But the "plan" goes awry and things kinda get worse before they get better. On the other hand, the midi-chlorians, if they're anything like Wesley's nanobots, do not necessarily possess an evolved moral conscience, but they are imbued with a self-preservation instinct. In this light, anything and everything that happens from the creation of Anakin going forward, is good. It's with some irony, then, that a microscopic, amoral lifeform inadvertently brings cataclysm on the "macro" forms they inhabit, but also pave the way for the macros' own salvation, creating better conditions in which they all may live. Sort of blind luck with a vague, fuzzy, amorphous "intent" behind it. There is actually a comment by Lucas in "The Making Of Star Wars" by Jonathan Rinzler where he gives remarkable form to the basic plot of the saga. In that remark, he says he subscribes to a "balanced" view of nature, where nature will have its way when things are pushed too far out of alignment, restoring a sense of equilibrium, no matter the cost.

The midi-chlorians, then, help bigger, lumbering lifeforms to unwittingly do the Force's bidding, though these bigger lifeforms are either unaware of the midis or in a state of ego-confusion about their own socio-biological sovereignty, believing them to be, first and foremost, potent communicators of the Force and its aims (Qui-Gon), or a microscopic slave population ripe for manipulation (Palpatine). But for the most part, people in the Star Wars galaxy seem to behave as if the midi-chlorians don't exist, and this is perhaps part of the reason that a lot of existing Star Wars fans still find the idea of the midi-chlorians hard to deal with. Preposterous! Looney Tunes! Science! Demystification! Dumbing down! Totally unnecessary! And what of our own attitudes to plants, animals, fungi, protista, and monera (or, indeed, suggesting the troubled / imperfect nature of life classification, eukarya, eubacteria, and archaea)? What, indeed, of our own attitudes to other members of the same species? What of our attitudes to other potential forms of life (e.g., machine-based intelligence)? The midi-chlorians, as a more primeval lifeform, probably DO bring these fictional characters closer to a binding Force, but they also fit within a broader allegory and epic nature poem that the PT, in my mind, is constructed as. Pay heed, says Lucas, to even microscopic variables: things beyond common ken or concern.

You can probably guess that I'm quite fond of this interpretation, not least because of all the words I just took outlining it. Anything that bolsters a sense of irony (I'm not saying Lucas' other propositions don't do this), and does by taking account of the different scales of life we know already exist on our own planet (the PT seems more sophisticated than the OT in this regard), seems, to me, to be a concept very in-keeping with the Star Wars mythos as a whole, and something that reduces human egotism by serving as a reminder that there are other configurations of life we need to pay attention to, without getting lost in solipsistic banalities like mythical Sith Lords or energy fields. In this regard, the inclusion of midi-chlorians has, surely, made the Star Wars universe a more complex and cogent mirror of our own. Diminution? Try wonderful expansion.

As a footnote, here is that comment I mentioned three paragraphs back -- with due homage to darth-sinister:

"I believe in a certain amount of determinism, from an ecological point of view. It's that things essentially reach their own equilibrium. If you don't live a certain way, ecologically speaking, you will be forced into a position that will level it. What I would call an "unpoetic" state will eventually become a "poetic state", because an unpoetic state will not last. It can't. It's like economics. It's like life, it's like animals, it's like everything. You can set up an artificial reality, but eventually it will equalize itself, and become real."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind The Original Film

 

It's shocking how much that description there reminds me of the ISOs in Tron: Legacy.

 

Not being overly familiar with the "TRON" films, I looked those up last night. Fascinating stuff.

Nice to find precedents or parallels in other Sci-Fi and fantasy universes.

And, now, yet again, I have even more things to think about. Thanks, ASR!

 

It's completely unnecessary to introduce yet another explanation for The Force. All that needed to be said had been said in the OT, especially in ANH and ESB. This new biology-based concept of The Force is so mind-boggingly stupid that the makers did not explore this theme any further in AOTC or ROTS.

Very well said! You hit the nail on the head.

"The story of the Force"? Jeez, the real problem here is that is doesn't advance the plot in any way. And back in the day nobody wanted to know how the Force worked on a biological level, in the first place.

Here we have GL trying to defend the shockingly stupid idea of a virgin birth. Go back and watch TPM again, the scene where Shmi tells Qui-Gon about Anakins birth. Not only is it quite a laughable explanation, it also adds absolutely nothing to the character of Anakin.

"Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin", says GL in your quote from the Feburary 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, page 117. It boggles the mind. This forced explanation (no pun intended) is even worse.

Oh, and by the way: quoting George Lucas does prove nothing. As I said before, the intention(s) of the maker(s) of a movie do not necessarily have to be represented in the movie. A director may want to tell a heartbreaking drama but what ultimately lands on screen may be something completely different because he simply failed to convert his intentions into a compelling movie.

 

That's why the prequels didn't give us one, as if confident that we had already seen the explanation for the Force that was given in ANH and TESB. Midichlorians explain selective Force sensitivity, not the Force.

Another oft-repeated misrepresentation. It comes up again in ROTS ( not to mention TCW ).

We already knew there was a hereditary, i.e. biological, component way back in 1983. Also, the midichlorians have a mystical connection to the Force, and as of the PT the Force has a will. It is no less mystical.

Another myth. It advances the prophecy plotline and serves as the mechanism by which Anakin is recruited.

Total irrelevancy aside, it's amazing how you knew what literally everyone was thinking.

It's a more or less direct reference to mythology. In a fantasy with the equivalent of magic and space wizards this kind of thing would not be inconceivable. In mythology it happens all the time.

By the way, I thought introducing scientific elements to the Force was supposed to be a bad thing because the Force was supposed to remain entirely mystical. Then a virgin birth comes along, and suddenly it's "Mystical bad! Science good!" How can we explain this 180 degree reversal?

You either respect authorial intent or you don't. Whether or not you found a movie "compelling" has nothing to do with it.