Midichlorians...

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Scott3eyez, May 22, 2003.

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  1. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    R2D2 and C3P0 don't, and they seem to be connected to the Force. (Unless it was just "luck" that they happened to play such a pivotal role in ANH...)
    Maybe the Force guided the ppl surrounding them, not the droids.
    And Obi Wan doesn't- in the last two episodes
    :D
    (but he didn't communicte with the Force in those episodes - he was one with the Force ;))

    >>>For me Qui-Gon's explanation strongly suggests that they are.

    Why?


    "Without the midi-chlorians,
    life could not exist, and we would have
    no knowledge of the Force. They
    continually speak to you, telling you
    the will of the Force.
    ANAKIN
    They do??
    QUI-GON
    When you learn to quiet your mind, you
    will hear them speaking to you."

    Do you mean it is "Without midi-chlorians life could not exist for some reason, which I won't explain now. Terefore we obviously would have no knowledge of the Force, since we wouldn't exist at all. BTW, they continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you, although you can't be sure it's really them, 'cause there're other possibilities to communictae with the Fore as well." ?
    Again, if I analyze it word-by-word, they might not be the only connection, but it most probably wasn't written for bein analyzed but for give an impression. And the impression I get from these lines, the way Liam delivers them and the whole atmosphere of the scene is that they are the connection to the Force. (By looking at the greater whole, the only thing I see that Lucas's continually changing his mind [face_plain])

    I'm convinced that if they were supposed to be the sole connection between people and the Force, then someone in a film would have mentioned it.
    Well, I'm convinced that if there were other ways of connection, then someone would mention it ;)

    In the ANH novelization, Obi-Wan tells Luke that although the Republic tried to define the Force with science, it could never figure it out entirely.
    Don't know what's in the novelization, but since OB's primary description was "a mystical energy field" it's reasonable. As an energy field, it might be studied scientifically to an extent, and also fits with the midichlorians. However, later we learn that being an energy field (I guess moving objects, lightening and stuff like that results from thhis) is only a small aspect of the Force, it's something mysterious, spiritual as well. The problem is, that Lucas seems to connect the midichlorians to the spiritual aspect (will of the Force, knowledge of the Force), which they don't fit wiht.
  2. Scott3eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 1, 2001
    star 4
    >>>>And I wasn't saying (at least didn't mean) that midi-testing affects teh mysticity of the Force itself, but that the mysticism of the communication with th Forc. (Note: if the midi-counting is reliable enough to determine who should be a Jedi in such young age, they can't be just something not-so-important)

    Well, I think the idea is that they not only "create" the Force, but "make it grow." (I'm sure you can figure out where I got that idea from...) So rather than being the connection between the Jedi and the Force, they make the Force stronger around a person.

    Hence "vergence"...

    >>>Maybe the Force guided the ppl surrounding them, not the droids.

    Possibly... It always seemed to me that R2D2 didn't really know where he was going when he went off to find "Old Ben" though. And it was the case that Obi Wan found Luke, rather than the other way around...

    >>>>Do you mean it is "Without midi-chlorians life could not exist for some reason, which I won't explain now. Terefore we obviously would have no knowledge of the Force, since we wouldn't exist at all. BTW, they continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you, although you can't be sure it's really them, 'cause there're other possibilities to communictae with the Fore as well." ?

    Kind of, although I'd phrase it slightly differently. And I'd skip the second bit of the last sentence. ;)

    Basically, look at the real world mitochondria. Without them, life would never have evolved into a form any more advanced than single celled amoeba, and probably would not have survived long. In short- "life would not exist, and we would have no knowledge."

    And "they speak to us, telling us the Will of the Force." That simply doesn't even hint to me in any way that we speak back to our midihclorians, and they tell the Will of the Force to lift an X-Wing out of a swamp, or to choke an imperial officer a few thousand miles away on a Star Destroyer...

    It also creates a clear distinction between the idea of using the Force for your own ends (ie. the Dark Side) and following the Force to serve others.

    >>>>Again, if I analyze it word-by-word, they might not be the only connection, but it most probably wasn't written for bein analyzed but for give an impression. And the impression I get from these lines, the way Liam delivers them and the whole atmosphere of the scene is that they are the connection to the Force. (By looking at the greater whole, the only thing I see that Lucas's continually changing his mind)

    How's this for a theory; the Jedi (well, Qui Gon) think that there's no such thing as life after death in any way, that the Sith have been wiped out a thousand years ago, that Chancellor Palpatine's a really nice guy, and that a high midichlorian count defends against the Dark Side, because you hear the Will of the Force better, which is much more important than having a quiet mind and actually listening?

    >>>>Well, I'm convinced that if there were other ways of connection, then someone would mention it

    Maybe they will in Episode III? Doubt it though.
  3. ShaakRider Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2002
    star 2
    Well, I think the idea is that they not only "create" the Force, but "make it grow." (I'm sure you can figure out where I got that idea from...) So rather than being the connection between the Jedi and the Force, they make the Force stronger around a person.

    Hence "vergence"...

    Sounds believable, though I don't see what does it explain. But anyway, seems like they are a connection, at least in one direction.

    Basically, look at the real world mitochondria. Without them, life would never have evolved into a form any more advanced than single celled amoeba, and probably would not have survived long. In short- "life would not exist, and we would have no knowledge."
    OK, then let's see the sentence "Mitochondria live in our cells, without them life (replace with eucharyotes if you want to be precise) woul not exist and we would have no knowledge about hte God (replace with the deity of any religion you like)". If I say that someone who has no clue, what are mitochondria (but he has a fuzzy pitcure, what a god supposed to be), he will very likely think that mitochondria are so essential because they have to do something with God. If I say that someone who knows, what they are, he will most likely laugh in my face for saying the obvious. Finally, if I say it in a movie, most of those who know mitochondria will think my dialogue is awfully written :p

    And "they speak to us, telling us the Will of the Force." That simply doesn't even hint to me in any way that we speak back to our midihclorians, and they tell the Will of the Force to lift an X-Wing out of a swamp, or to choke an imperial officer a few thousand miles away on a Star Destroyer...
    Sounds bizarre. One controls the Force directly, but doesnt sense it directly? If the control would be bound to midi's, that could make some slight sense, but this way...just really bizarre.

    It also creates a clear distinction between the idea of using the Force for your own ends (ie. the Dark Side) and following the Force to serve others.
    Don't see it.

    How's this for a theory; the Jedi (well, Qui Gon) think that there's no such thing as life after death in any way, that the Sith have been wiped out a thousand years ago, that Chancellor Palpatine's a really nice guy, and that a high midichlorian count defends against the Dark Side, because you hear the Will of the Force better, which is much more important than having a quiet mind and actually listening?
    :confused:
  4. Jade's Fire2003 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 4
    Basically, look at the real world mitochondria. Without them, life would never have evolved into a form any more advanced than single celled amoeba, and probably would not have survived long. In short- "life would not exist, and we would have no knowledge."... OK, then let's see the sentence "Mitochondria live in our cells, without them life (replace with eucharyotes if you want to be precise) woul not exist and we would have no knowledge about the G-d (replace with the deity of any religion you like)".

    I don't think this parallel works in this case, considering the completely physical nature of the mitochondria that in no way connect us to a G-d as ShaakRider has pointed out. However, I do hold to my interpretation of the atman in this case.

    Sounds bizarre. One controls the Force directly, but doesnt sense it directly? If the control would be bound to midi's, that could make some slight sense, but this way...just really bizarre.

    A person senses and controls the Force through their connection to it: the midi-chlorians that bind people to the Force. Everything is bound to the midi-chlorians.
  5. Obi Quiet Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 1999
    star 1
    Qui-Gon said life could not exist without the midichlorians. Then he said that without midichlorians we would have no knowledge of the Force. Well, OF COURSE we wouldn't. How would we have knowledge of the Force if we didn't exist?

    The idea that Anakin can hear the midichlorians speaking to him when he learns to quiet his mind isn't THAT different from the idea that Luke will be able to tell the dark side from the light side when he's calm and at peace, is it?

    I don't know that anything that's been said about the midichlorians necessarily contradicts anything that was said about the Force in the OT. I just don't know if introducing the concept of midichlorians was necessary. We'll know after Ep. III, I guess.
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