Senate Military coups, senseless massacres, and never-ending civil wars in the Muslim world

Please use this thread for general discussion of national and regional politics/society in the Middle East in the aftermath of the now 32 month old Arab Spring.

The most obvious point of discussion at the moment is probably Egypt. As you all may recall, the democratically elected Morsi government was expelled by the Egyptian military under General Al-Sissi in early July. It was greeted with a range of sentiments on these boards, including disappointment at the disruption of civilian government, some who were (albeit cautiously "optimistic") and a few who would compare Al-Sissi to the writers or the Declaration of Independence, and Morsi to King George. Since that time, the secret police have been re-activated, and as of today the emergency law used to vest prior leaders like Mubarak with virtually unchecked power has gone back into effect.

Egyptian society has grown increasingly polarized in the interval, with mass demonstrations on both sides. All major Islamist parties have been excluded from governance, and their leaders have been largely jailed or seen asset freezes. The military has open-fired on largely peaceful civilian protestors multiple times. Most notably, today they forcibly cleared the two major pro-Morsi sit-ins, leaving a death toll currently pegged at 281 and expected to continue rising. Increasing violence in the Sinai and attacks against Copts are thought to represent reprisal attacks, though this isn't entirely clear.

Take it away.
Comprehensive Coverage

 

We could always use more parking lots, right?

 

It's so sad what's happening. Honestly, short of a miracle, Egypt is in for some very rough years now. It will get better, eventually, but it could get a lot worse first. I don't understand how their military could have possibly come to the conclusion that this was appropriate action. And now I'm worried about an anti-military demagogue rising to power, and possibly a real civil war there. I don't know what the US can do either, wouldn't cutting aid mostly hurt the Egyptian people?

 

Only non-humanitarian (see: military) aid would be suspended if the U.S. officially recognized the military coup as a coup, so cutting it off wouldn't "hurt the Egyptian people." It would, however, hurt the U.S.'s influence over the country and the region.

 

what is an "anti-military demagogue" and why should i fear them?

 

Well it's just time to admit that all Muslims are inherently violent people.



It's the Islams that are peaceful, as I recall.

 

Buncha drama llamas, really

 

Well it's not like revolutions bring order and justice, there is always a 'reign of terror' or 'purge' like this.

Though the military has to know after crossing this Rubicon that it's either wipe out the Brotherhood and the Morsi camp or await eventual execution once they regain power. What will decide that will be the Egyptians how wanted Morsi gone who up till now have let events continue to play out. If they join with the Morsi group against the military then a return to power by Morsi or a similar like minded leader is near inevitable.

 

Mubarak being forced out was not a revolution. The military establishment still being in power is like Batista being ousted but leaving the American corporations on the island alone, or Iranians in 1979 leaving the Shah to his devices. 2011 was an illusion. Louis is still on the throne.

 

Send her in.



Scrappy Coco say this. She will have whole problem sorted out, two hours tops.

 

We should just send Adam Sandler to Egypt and burn his passport so he doesn't leave.

 

Other way around.

 

When all this started, I knew that it would be bloody and wouldn't end quickly, but I'm still shocked at how bad the situation is. First Libya, now Egypt?

 

This is a job for...

 

darth_boy? All he'll do is complain that we're talking about Egypt when PALESTINIANS ARE DYING.

 

It's dangerous when people realise they can overthrow their own government. The people want stability but they also want to know that what they do makes a difference.

Friends of ours were actually going to Egypt as part of a trip, they have since cancelled and are probably now glad they did.

 

I mean some great orator who claims "look at all the liberals and secularists who supported the military, they are complicit in these killings now, and it is justice that they should be the ones who are killed!" Basically a butcher who rises on the opposite side too. The Egyptian people are going to be very riled up against the military now, and it could be easy for some bloodthirsty and self-serving politician/leader to now rise on the opposite side.

 

Another 60 people reported dead today, though I suspect the number may actually be higher. Cairo, Alexandria, and Fayoum among the areas experiencing disorder. Just saw the headline of an MSNBC news article titled "Eygpt may avoid civil war - but bloody conflict could continue for years." Uh, hello?!! Seems to me the country is pratically in a civil war already!

 

No, it's not a civil war as there isn't organised fighting. This is not like Libya.

 

Morsi supporters faking pictures of them being hurt, etc.

 

Complete urban pacification.

 

It's an all-out urban street fight which is perhaps well on it's way to becoming a civil war. The US government gives billions of dollars a year in aide to the Egyptian military. Maybe now we can re-think that idea?

 

Lord Vivec: What exactly is demonstrated with that video? There are over 600 confirmed deaths from a single day, by the military's count. Among them are incidents like the one below, where an innocent protestor is like the one below, where an unarmed protestor is killed while trying to carry another wounded man to safety. There's plenty to object to about the Brotherhood, and even about their post-coup behavior. But it's pretty indisputable that the response from the military was grossly disproportionate in their use of force. Unless that is also a lie, should it really change anyone's response to what's happening?

Spoiler: Graphic

 

Wocky I am just linking to a video that surfaced today because it is relevant. That is all.

 

http://www.egyptindependent.com/new...ptians-do-not-sympathize-pro-morsy-protesters