ST Mind Trick and Mind Probe, different side of the same coin?

Obviously I'm talking mind probe (coined in the novelization) as a Force power/technique as demonstrated by Kylo Ren here not the mind probe of an interrogator droid. At first they seem quite different as mind trick is relatively benign and used to - well - hypnotize people whereas mind probe is clearly painful for the recipient and used to take information by force. But then I remember a scene in TCW where mind trick is used way more forcefully (and unorthodox) than we normally see. I'm talking of course about Cad Bane interrogation by Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Mace Windu. See the scene below:


Now tell me that Cad Bane near the end doesn't have similar painful experience as Poe and Rey when Kylo Ren mind probed them. Bane even yelled "Get out of my head!" like Rey did! Sure in Bane case the Jedi still try to compel him to do their command instead of forcefully take info out of his mind (not sure which is worse in this case) but this for me show that mind trick and mind probe at the very least have similar underlying principle. Why the Jedi didn't outright use mind probe on Bane seems to be a more philosophical or ethical issue rather than inability. Similarly I don't recall darksiders ever use mind trick not explicitly anyway (maybe Palpatine mass mind tricks the Senate but who knows) but I doubt the most skilled are unable if push come to shove.The analogy is like in the beginning of the movie where Poe said to Finn that blasters and TIE gun/cannon have same principle of operation. Now why am I talking about this? Of course this is in relation to Rey learning mind trick after Kylo mind probed her. People would always still have a problem with this and that's fine and a valid concern imo but hopefully with what I said above this would be less out of the blue. I mean imo if mind trick and mind probe have similar underlying principle then it would be less of a stretch if Rey learn how to mind trick after being subjected to a mind probe especially if she turns out to be trained in the ways of the Force a long time ago. Of course feel free to disagree and point it out if there turns out to be holes with my comparison.

As a side note, the Inquisitors in Star Wars Rebels also seem to be able to use mind probe or similar mental technique. This is demonstrated by the Grand Inquisitor when interrogating Kanan and by the Seventh Sister briefly on Ezra.

 

I agree, and actually think the fact that Rey was exposed to a lot of direct Force powers by Ren allowed her to figure it out a bit. He was trying to mind probe her, and she was able to resist, then figure out how to turn it around on him. Think Harry Potter learning Occlumency from Snape; he was always strongest after he was pushing back and turning it around on his attacker. Rey is apparently a bit of a Jedi/adventure fangirl; she knew who Solo was, about Luke Skywalker, etc.

She knew these powers were possible, unlike Luke who had no faith or belief at the start of his training. She had firsthand demonstration of how to use some of the most intense Force powers; mind tricks, and was strong enough to impose her will, defend, and strike back against Kylo. Then she had to try it a few times but focused on the stormtrooper (Daniel Craig lol!), and was able to make it work. Same thing with catching the lightsaber (I attribute her ability to focus and fight back during the lightsaber duel to a combination of her centering herself in the Force and her prior martial experience with her staff weapon).

Remember how Luke was constantly telling Yoda that certain powers were impossible? He told Yoda "I don't believe it!" and Yoda said "That is why you fail." Rey BELIEVES. And when she realized she could not only resist Kylo Ren, but actually turn the tables in his interrogation (unlike Poe, who could only resist and be stubborn, kind of like Cad Bane in the clip above), she realized she had Force powers. That's why you see her starting to try out all the powers she believes in from the stories: the mind trick, Force-summoning the lightsaber, etc.

Just like Kylo Ren is basically a Vader fanboy, Rey was basically an OT fangirl. She knew about the Millenium Falcon's Kessel Run. Imagine if you were suddenly captured by a Force user, and in the process realized you were powerful in the Force. What would you do to try and escape? The first things you'd try are a mind trick or using the Force for telekinesis (third, imo, would be to try and Force-blast the door or something, which is essentially telekinesis). How would you try and do this? Do what Yoda said: Focus, take a deep breath, reach out with your feelings, see what you want accomplished, believe in it, and will it to happen. That's what she did, and she had a little demonstration from Kylo in how it would feel to help her figure it out.

 

^ So she's the Star Wars equivalent of Rogue?

 

There are no such thing as force powers, the "powers" are just manifestations of one's will in the force. Just because Palpatine likes using lightning and taught it to his apprentices doesn't mean you have to be a level 36 sith to unlock that ability in your skill tree.

 

She can't use Kylo's force stasis/paralyze though.

Sure, but for the sake of discussion it is way more convenient saying "mind trick" rather than "that moment when you use the Force and compelled someone to do your command". I mean even in-universe the term "mind trick" is used.

 

Well said.

Mind trick and mind probe seem pretty similar to me. Whether you're trying to coerce someone to think of something specific, or do something specific ... either way, it's the power of suggestion.

 

Vader does this same thing to Luke in RotJ without causing pain. If pain is part of it it is either because the person is resisting, or because the person isn't well trained in the technique.

 

"The Force can have a powerful influence on the weak-minded."