"Mine... mine": Leia's Force-vision in Troy Denning's _Tatooine Ghost_...

Tatooine Ghost.

At the start of the novel, Leia has a vision of Vader which seems to show Luke behind the mask. It's obvious enough that this is supposed to foreshadow Dark Empire, and Farmboy's brief stint as his father's son; Denning says so in the interview at the back of the paperback, and the vision itself seems to summarise the scene in DE when Luke, on Byss, Force-projects an image of Vader to Leia at Pinnacle Base, which morphs into an image of himself...

But the start of the vision is something different - a cowled Dark Jedi, perhaps Palpatine, but with sun-bright eyes, whispering "Mine... mine..."

This recurs later, on Tatooine - same sun-bright eyes, same "Mine... mine...", though here, the image is muddled with one of Han...

Now Leia is later able to build on the vision to draw strength and reject the Dark Side, but this is gnawing at me... where does "Mine... mine..." come from?

It sounds as though it should be Palpatine, a foreshadowing of Dark Empire but a thorough survey (thanks to other parts of the NRG hive-mind for their help ), taking in DE, DE2, EE, and the DE and DE2 radio dramas fails to reveal him using this phrase...

Now maybe we've just missed something, and Palpatine certainly uses similar phrases... the trouble is, they're as much about Anakin Solo as they are about Luke Skywalker...

And then, it struck me that the structure of the vision parallels Anakin's own recurring nightmare, as described in Conquest - the threatening presence of Palpatine or the Dark Side, and himself trapped behind Vader's mask...

Now it's true that Denning says he's foreshadowing DE here, but he doesn't identify Luke directly; he identifies "Luke's eyes"; and it's "Luke's eyes" (the very same phrase) that draw Leia to the holo of her grandfather later in the novel. I don't think I need to say that Anakin Solo is also described, once or twice, as having Luke's eyes....

Add to that the slight differences from the scene in DE - the voice is comm-filtered, and "staying out of darkness" isn't exactly what Luke says in DE, either in the graphic novel or the radio drama...

So - probably this is mere overanalysis; perhaps it's Denning being sneaky and ambiguous; perhaps it's something to do with the Collective Unconscious; the likelihood that it's actually foreshadowing of anything post-NJO is very, very slim...

But does anyone have any thoughts (serious or silly ) on what the "Mine... mine..." might mean or allude to? In particular (and probably just for fun ) - are there any further descriptions of Anakin's recurring nightmare in the JJK novels...?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

"His face was frighteningly serene, and perhaps a touch sad. The pupils of his eyes were like rising suns." -Leia's description of Jacen Solo, pg. 472, TUF.

 

Then, of course, there was Han's little "Wouldn't it just SUCK if Palpatine came back to life??" pronunciamento in that same book...

 

Are you subtly suggesting this is a foreshadowing of Jacen turning, Blithe?

 

TMcE:
Great topic.

Interestingly enough, just the other day I was thinking about whether or not the Solo twins were conceived during Tatooine Ghost, and if Leia's vision could somehow have been about the "Darkside" and Jacen's conception. "Mine... mine..." indeed!

Blithe:
Now you're talking!



This would be pretty sweet if Denning foreshadowed Jacen's turn to the "Darkside" so far back chronologically as TG.

If Jacen ends up turning, of course...

 

Knight: Basically. I just don't see any correlation between Anakin Solo and this darkside vision of Leia's.

HSK: That would be pretty sweet if Denning was actually being that clever.

 

Blithe: "His face was frighteningly serene, and perhaps a touch sad. The pupils of his eyes were like rising suns." -Leia's description of Jacen Solo, pg. 472, TUF.

Hmm. Yep. Good catch!

Leto: Then, of course, there was Han's little "Wouldn't it just SUCK if Palpatine came back to life??" pronunciamento in that same book...

Indeed!



Han: Great topic.

Thanks!

Interestingly enough, just the other day I was thinking about whether or not the Solo twins were conceived during Tatooine Ghost, and if Leia's vision could somehow have been about the "Darkside" and Jacen's conception. "Mine... mine..." indeed!

Well, given the timing, I suspect they were... at the Sidi Driss, no?

It's rather different than the Dancing Baby that led to Harry Ford's real-life son, though...

This would be pretty sweet if Denning foreshadowed Jacen's turn to the "Darkside" so far back chronologically as TG.

If Jacen ends up turning, of course...

Hasn't he fallen already?

This makes me think, though - we know that Jacen blanks at least one "Dark Side moment", in Traitor; we don't even know for sure that he remembers throwing Force Lightning in DW... has Tyler-Jacen perhaps been busier than we realise? And around for longer?

Or, to take it to a real level of wierdness - are the YV perhaps projections of his own warped mind, his nightmares made real? Could Jacen have discovered about Vergere and Zonama Sekot, and made the whole thing up on that basis - like a massive White Current or Dark Side illusion?

Blithe: I just don't see any correlation between Anakin Solo and this darkside vision of Leia's.

How abou the basic structure of the vision - the shadowy Dark Side/Palpatine figure, then the blue-eyed heir to the Vader bloodline locked behind the iconic iron mask...

Of course, there does seem to be a foreshadowing of DE in there - and in the DelRey interview, Denning agrees with the interviewer that what happens to Luke there is foreshadowed "at one point" in the novel, and that there's no point making stuff up when things are already in-continuity; but there are little niggles that just make me wonder...

Which is why I'm asking if anyone can find the descriptions of Anakin's dream from the JJK stuff...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

The "mine, mine" phrase, I always thought was the Emperor claiming Luke as his thrall, or perhaps forshadowing his attempt to possess Anakin's body.

 

As long as I understand what you were alluding to, Blithe, I have no problem. After all, the early NJO did, itself, seem to suggest such a thing would occur. It might still do so.

 

Is this at all tied into the theory floating around that Anakin turned on the worldship, or even before?

Because if it is, that's a) really good foreshadowing by Denning, even better than Stover's, and b) very interesting that it was thrown in.

Any chance we can get author's perspective on this?

And who the heck is the Ghost anyway? Denning says (from the PPB):

DR: Who or what is the ghost of the title? Is it Shmi? Is it Anakin?
TD: As Han says somewhere in the story, it depends on how you look at it. To me, the ghost is something much larger than either Anakin or Shmi.
DR: Do you mean the Force?
TD: Yes and no. I don't really want to say, because the ghost is going to be something different for everyone. You could even make a case for it being Obi-Wan or the Tuskens, and all of those interpretations might be valid.

Interesting, ain't it? Those answers open up a lot, but it seems that with Denning being the author of both SbS and DNT, it's very possible that it's foreshadowing Jacen's turn or Anakin's turn (or return as a Sith).

 

(using my Halloween sock, I'm Lank_Pavail)

You're suggesting Jacen is that strong in the Force that he could project the entire YV invasion into everyone's minds, McEwok? A bit of a stretch, even with the help of Vergere and Sekot. A bit more approachable idea is 'Tyler-Jacen' as you call him calling Omini through the Force, thus setting the invasion in motion. Just my .02, though

Heck that would also feed back inot my theory about Jacne hating himself and the GFFA and wanting to burn it all down in the most painful way possible.

 

"Size matters not"?

What limits most Jedi is their perception that "it can't be done" - whereas Tyler-Jacen has the distinct advantage that he doesn't consciously realise what he's doing...

Aye, it makes me uneasy, especially since, going by DE and the BFC, we'd be talking about things with physical form, rather than illusions or ghosts - though I suspect that in this case, the 'sentience' of the YV would be basically schitzophrenic hiving from Jacen's own mind...

Alternatively, if the idea that they're from Jacen's Id is too much for you, Sekot is, I suspect, equally credible...

- The Imperial Ewok