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Saga Mirroring between consecutive episodes (1/2, 2/3, 3/4, 4/5 ,5/6, 6/7) (Heavy Picture Content)

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by HevyDevy, Dec 9, 2014.

  1. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Attack of the Clones /// Revenge of the Sith
    (2)




    Discussing nightmares/premonitions
    [​IMG]
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    Contemplating (linked to Luke looking at twin sunset in ANH)
    [​IMG]
    Symbolic eclipse
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    Similar saber-stance
    [​IMG]
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    "I hate them!"
    [​IMG]
    "I hate you!"
    [​IMG]









    Lightning at clone army creation
    [​IMG]
    Lightning at Vader's creation
    [​IMG]
     
    BenYodaDagobah likes this.
  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Revenge of the Sith /// A New Hope



    "This is where the fun begins!"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]








    Anakin
    [​IMG]
    Vader
    [​IMG]










    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]














    "What's that?" "That's nothing."
    [​IMG]
    "What's that?" "That's nothing."
    [​IMG]
    (Both sounds referenced here are made by Obi-Wan)

    Artoo hiding as Obi-Wan speaks through the intercom
    [​IMG]
    Artoo hiding as Obi-Wan tends to Luke
    [​IMG]







    Wrecking fighter
    [​IMG]
    Stealing parts
    [​IMG]








    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Revenge of the Sith /// A New Hope
    (2)




    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]










    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
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    Good droids
    [​IMG]
    Bad "droid"
    [​IMG]









    Twilight of the Republic
    [​IMG]
    Soul eclipse
    [​IMG]
    A New Hope
    [​IMG]
     
    BenYodaDagobah likes this.
  4. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Revenge of the Sith /// A New Hope
    (3)

    Last bunch for now.





    Pointing at wife with connection to Rebellion
    [​IMG]
    Pointing at daughter with connection to Rebellion
    [​IMG]











    Inverse mentors

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    "Of course, you should, but you aren't entirely sure of their intentions are you?"
    [​IMG]
    "You must do what you think is right, of course."
    [​IMG]







    "The sandpeople are easily startled but they'll soon be back, and in greater numbers."
    [​IMG]
    *Tusken cry in background*

    "Remember what you told me about your mother and the sandpeople?" *Tusken cry in background*
    [​IMG]
    "Anakin, there is no time! We must get of this ship before it is too late."









    Personal force choke -
    [​IMG]
    Obi-Wan: "Let her go!"

    Impersonal force choke -
    [​IMG]
    Tarkin: "Vader... release him!"








    Troops watch leader fight Obi-Wan
    [​IMG]
    Troops watch leader fight Obi-Wan
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    [​IMG]
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  5. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    A New Hope /// Empire Strikes Back


    Leia's silent introduction in each film
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]
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    Millenium Falcon in asteroids
    [​IMG]
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    Impatience to leave the farm
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    Impatience to "meet Yoda"
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    Interrogating Leia for Rebel base location
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    "They never even asked me any questions..."
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    Luke dragged under
    [​IMG]
    R2 dragged under
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    R2 scanning desert detects Tusken activity
    [​IMG]
    R2 scanning snow can't find Luke and Han, for Leia
    [​IMG]
    R2 scanning forest can't find Leia, for Luke and Han
    [​IMG]









    [​IMG]
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    "A city in the clouds" subverts the heaven imagery with a false haven
    [​IMG]
     
  6. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    A New Hope /// Empire Strikes Back
    (2)


    The opening crawl of ANH states "Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."
    ESB's crawl subverts ANH with: "Although the Deathstar has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel Alliance from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy."





    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Rebel briefing
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    [​IMG]
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    C3PO to R2: "You have to come back. You wouldn't want my life to get boring would you?"
    C3PO to R2: "Take good care of master Luke. And... do take good care of yourself."





    There are many Rebel casualties in both battles, but the most noticeable contrast between each is Luke's defeat in ESB, Ep5 being the "down" movie of the OT.

    All except 3 Rebel ships are destroyed
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Luke's iconic victory
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    In ESB's Hoth Battle there are similar losses
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    Dak, Luke's gunner, killed
    [​IMG]

    But Luke is also shot down
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    Some misc.


    ANH establishes lightspeed as a viable thing
    [​IMG]
    But in ESB there is much struggle to use it, before the hyperdrive finally works at the end of the film
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    Lando uses it pretty routinely in ROTJ, besides the fact the Rebels are heading into a trap
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    [​IMG]
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    - Artoo's distrust of Yoda in ESB is a little ironic when he was so dedicated to finding Obi-Wan in ANH.


    - The Millenium Falcon seems cursed;
    in ANH it is tractor beamed into the Deathstar and later tracked to Yavin,
    in ESB the hyperdrive fails on three occasions,
    in ROTJ it leads an assault on the DS2 not knowing it is operational.
     
    PCCViking likes this.
  7. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I'm going to add ROTJ/TFA observations later in the week.
    For now...


    Empire Strikes Back /// Return of the Jedi



    Doom of closing doors with Han and Luke missing
    [​IMG]
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    Doom of closing door sealing the droids in Jabba's Palace
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    [​IMG]
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    Leia's sorrow at losing Han to Boba Fett
    [​IMG]
    Getting Han out of carbon-freeze and instantly being captured by Jabba
    [​IMG]
    When her friends are going to be fed to the sarlaac
    [​IMG]








    "Princess, we'll find Han, I promise."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    Han engages a Star Destroyer head-on to power-down and hide on it
    [​IMG]
    Lando engages a Star Destroyer head-on to avoid the DS2's superlaser
    [​IMG]






    ESB-
    Han: "It's not my fault!" (hyperdrive broken)
    ...
    Lando: "They told me they fixed it! I trusted them to fix it! It's not my fault!" (hyperdrive seemingly broken)

    ROTJ-
    Han: "Jabba, I was just on my way to pay you back, but I got a little sidetracked. It's not my fault!"







    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some similar Luke characterisation moments:

    ANH -
    Owen: "You must understand I need you here, Luke."

    Han: "Why don't you come along... you're pretty good in a fight, we could use you."

    Biggs: "Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the Outer-Rim territories."

    Vader: "The force is strong with this one."

    ESB -
    C3PO: Don't worry, I'm sure he'll be alright. Master Luke is quite clever you know, for a human being."

    ESB and ROTJ -
    Vader: "Obi-Wan has taught you well..."

    ROTJ -
    Chewie informs Han that Luke will rescue them. R2-D2 is confident that Luke is going to be victorious against Jabba's gang.
    Vader and the Emperor sense Luke's growing power.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Luke's telekinesis becomes more natural to him over the course of ESB.
    In the Hoth cave he, with great effort, pulls his saber out of snow to avoid being eaten by the Wampa. Compare this to him floating C3PO's entire body to avoid being eaten by Ewoks in the next film.
    His training on Dagobah seems to be a major reason; Luke quickly force-grabbing a pistol in Jabba's Palace, and instantly willing his saber to himself during both Ep5's and Ep6's confrontations with Vader.

    Yoda laments Luke's decision to leave his training on Dagobah to attempt to save his friends in ESB, yet inversely claims in ROTJ "No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need."
    Luke's more hand's-on experience over the course of the OT seems to prepare him to resist the dark side better than his father did.



    A trivial demonstration of Luke's earned wisdom...

    Dagobah Crash-landing in ESB
    [​IMG]
    Dagobah successful landing in ROTJ
    [​IMG]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Something again reinforcing the "down" nature of ESB...
    - In ANH when the DS is about to be destroyed Tarkin remarks "Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances!"
    - In ROTJ Imperials lose morale and evacuate the DSII as it is about to be destroyed.
    - In TFA, First Order officers want to evacuate as Starkiller Base is being destroyed.

    - Yet inversely Leia orders (in ESB): "Give the evacuation code-signal!" as the Rebels abandon their base on Hoth.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Cool continuity
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    BenYodaDagobah likes this.
  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Empire Strikes Back /// Return of the Jedi
    (2)


    ESB - Vader (Boba's employer) stopping Boba shooting Chewbacca
    [​IMG]

    ROTJ - Leia pretends to collect bounty on Chewbacca
    [​IMG]
    Boba is about to shoot but stops when Jabba (Boba's employer) is amused
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    Similar bad-guy moments regarding Han's fate:
    ESB-
    Vader: "I am altering the deed. Pray I don't alter it any further."
    ROTJ-
    Jabba: "There will be no bargain. I don't want to give up my favourite decoration."



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Expanding on the "Luke surpassing Vader" motif earlier on this thread

    There appears to be some reinforcement of the dark side as the "quick and easy path" in ROTS.

    Anakin struggling in saber-lock
    [​IMG]
    "I sense great fear in you Skywalker! You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them."
    [​IMG]
    Anakin uses the dark-side and instantly overwhelms Dooku
    [​IMG]


    Luke struggling in saber-lock in ESB
    [​IMG]
    It takes a whole movie without the dark-side to surpass his father.
    Luke confident in saber-lock in ROTJ
    [​IMG]





    Nevertheless, Luke finds greatest power when giving in to anger like his father...

    ESB - "You are beaten! It is useless to resist."
    [​IMG]
    ROTJ - After Luke gives in to anger
    [​IMG]



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    [​IMG]
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    ESB - Asteroid hits Star Destroyer bridge
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    Hologram fades out as officer's ship is destroyed
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    ROTJ - A-wing hits Star Destroyer Bridge
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Luke setting course for Dagobah in both movies involves an identical shot
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Jango723 likes this.
  9. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Empire Strikes Back /// Return of the Jedi
    (3)


    Robot-hand foreshadowing and symbolism

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    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Luke taking his weapons into the Dagobah cave is a sign he hasn't conquered his fear
    [​IMG]
    By the time he faces Vader later in the film he has controlled his fear, but still holds anger and hate for Vader
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    Only when (in ROTJ) he refuses to kill Vader and throws away his weapon does he completely let go of his hatred.
    "I am a Jedi..."
    [​IMG]
     
  10. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Empire Strikes Back /// Return of the Jedi
    (4)



    Intro to Empire ESB
    [​IMG]
    Opening shot ROTJ
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]






    Wedge helping take-down AT-AT - "Good shot Jansen!"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Wedge helping destroy DS2 - "I'm already on my way out."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]







    Luke about to be eaten
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Luke uses the force to pull his saber to him - and an aggressive slash - to get out of it
    [​IMG]

    Luke, Han and Chewie about to be eaten
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    [​IMG]
    Luke uses the force passively to float C3PO and gets them out of it
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I've noticed there tends to be conflict with primitives in the middle episodes (2,3,4,5) and harmony with primitives in the end movies (1 and 6).
    In 2 and 4 there is conflict with Tuskens. In 5 Luke fights the Wampa and the Ugnaughts are badguys.
    But in 1 the Naboo team up with the Gungans and in 6 the Rebels become part of the Ewok tribe. Seems recurring in a way.

    Related to this...
    C3PO is blown up on Cloud City, then neglected by the Ugnaughts who were about to scrap him
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Inversely, C3PO is worshipped as a god by the Ewoks
    [​IMG]








    "Come with me. It is the only way."
    Luke would rather jump to possible death than join Darth Vader
    [​IMG]
    "By now you must know your father can never be turned from the darkside. So will it be with you."
    "You're wrong. Soon I'll be dead... and you with me."
    [​IMG]
     
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Empire Strikes Back /// Return of the Jedi
    (5)

    "Luke... you will go to the Dagobah system... there you will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me."
    [​IMG]
    "Yoda will always be with you."
    [​IMG]







    ESB has two almost identical shots, one when the Millenium Falcon is about to enter the asteroid-field, and one when they leave it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The obvious irony in Threepio's line becomes more apparent - "Thank goodness we've come out of the asteroid-field."
    The crew are essentially in exactly the same position they were before they hid among the asteroids.








    Three mistakes made by the Imperials in ESB...
    Ozzel is killed by Vader for alerting the Rebels on Hoth to their presence
    [​IMG]
    Needa is killed by Vader for losing the Millenium Falcon
    [​IMG]
    But at the end of the film, when the Millenium Falcon escapes, Piett thinks he is going to take the blame
    [​IMG]
    Yet Vader, too upset at losing his chance at turning Skywalker, simply broodingly storms off
    [​IMG]
    Additionally; there is character development for Vader in how he sees other living beings.
    For much of the saga Vader sees several groups as expendable - the Separatists, the Jedi, the Rebels, Imperial troops and officers ("Asteroids do not concern me admiral."), even - at first - his discovered son Luke.
    He makes the opposite transition than in the prequels... Padme and his friends and family go from loved to being unempathised for, and seen as tools. In the OT he is willing to kill Luke at first, but eventually saves him solely out of selfless love.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Han: "Turn her around, I'm gonna put all power in the front shield!"
    [​IMG]
    Lando: "Pull up! All craft pull up!"
    [​IMG]


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    In ANH and ESB the Rebels never manage to destroy as Star Destroyer. The best they can do is temporarily disable one with the ion cannon while evacuating Hoth:
    [​IMG]
    During the Battle of Endor, however, they defeat the Super Stardestroyer
    [​IMG]











    "Ben... why didn't you tell me?"
    [​IMG]
    "Obi-Wan! Why didn't you tell me?"
    [​IMG]
     
  12. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Empire Strikes Back /// Return of the Jedi
    (final)


    Some continuity with the Imperial chain of command.

    Piett is promoted in ESB for discovering the Rebel base over Ozzel
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    "Don't fail me again, admiral."
    [​IMG]

    He therefore commands the Stardestroyer blockade of the Rebels in ROTJ.
    This follows on from the ESB moments where he informs Vader the Falcon's hyperdrive has been deactivated, and readies the tractor beam to capture them.

    "I have my instructions from the Emperor himself, he has something special planned."
    [​IMG]

    Piett's death during the Battle of Endor
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------








    -
    ESB -
    Han: "They'll dump their garbage before they make the jump to lightspeed, then we just float away."
    Leia: "With the rest of the "garbage"."
    ROTJ -
    Han: "How are we doing?:
    Luke: Same as always."
    Han: "That bad, huh?"







    -
    ESB -
    Luke: "I don't believe it!"
    Yoda: "That is why you fail."
    ROTJ-
    Luke's unwavering faith is what destroys the Emperor and redeems his father.


    -
    Vader spends much of ESB trying to capture the Millenium Falcon. In ROTJ he senses Luke among the Rebels arriving at Endor, but lets them pass for now, looking at the bigger picture - Luke will eventually come to Vader himself. It foreshadows Vader's redemption, I think.
    There is also a contrast in Luke being lured to Bespin by Vader in ESB, versus confronting Vader passively in ROTJ.
    ESB- "No, I am your father." "That's not true... that's impossible!"
    ROTJ- "The Emperor has been expecting you." "I know, father."

    Luke also is trying his best to defeat Vader in ESB versus holding back in ROTJ.
    Vader: "You are unwise to lower your defenses!"







    -
    ESB - Luke rushes to Bespin to save his friends and ends up needing rescue from them.
    ROTJ - Luke almost turns when Vader threatens to turn Leia.

    Anakin similarly leave his mission to go and help his mother, ultimately starting down the dark path as a result.
    Luke learns from his failure and eventually becomes a Jedi. Anakin's failure is never recovered from.
    I would argue Luke is grounded in the moment, where Anakin tries to control the future coloured by a damaged past.
    According to the EU; unlike Luke, Anakin never properly finishes his trials before he is knighted a Jedi. Luke learns from his hands-on failures and successes over the course of the OT.




    -
    Obi-Wan and Yoda arguably don't steer Luke in the right direction with regards to his father.

    AOTC - Obi-Wan: "This weapon is your life!"
    ROTJ - Luke: "I can't kill my own father." Obi-Wan: "Then the Emperor has already won."
    ...
    ESB - Yoda: "Your weapons, you will not need them."
    contrasts
    ROTJ - Emperor: "Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with all of your hatred."


    -
    ROTS - Obi-Wan: "I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you. I could never teach you to think!"
    ROTJ - Vader: "So... you have a twin sister. Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete."













    -
    ESB -
    Vader: "I am your father." ... "Search your feelings you know it to be true!"
    ROTJ -
    Luke: "Yes, it's you Leia."
    Leia: "I know... somehow... I've always known."








    -
    ESB -
    Leia: "Luke, don't, it's a trap!"
    (Referencing Vader's trap to turn Luke and use him to kill the Emperor, replacing Sidious as master.)
    ROTJ -
    Ackbar: "It's a trap!"
    (This trap is partially a setup by The Emperor to help turn Luke and have Luke kill Vader, replacing Vader as apprentice.)


    -
    ESB -
    Vader: "It is the only way."
    ROTJ -
    Emperor: "There is no escape, my young apprentice." ... "You, like your father, are now mine!"


    -
    ESB - Vader: "Come with me. It is the only way." (Join the dark side)
    ROTJ - Luke: "Come with me." (Reject the dark side)


    -
    ESB - Yoda: "If you leave now, help them you could... but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered."
    ROTJ - Emperor: "...and your friends on the Endor moon will not survive." ... "With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant."


    -
    ESB - Vader: You have controlled your fear. Now release your anger! Only your hatred can destroy me!"
    ROTJ - Emperor: "The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"









    -
    Obi-Wan states Luke is their only hope in both ESB and ROTJ.
    I wonder why he isn't considering Leia?









    -
    ESB - Luke: "But how am I supposed to know the good side from the bad?"
    Yoda: "You will know! When you are calm, at peace. Passive."
    ROTJ - Emperor: "Good! Your hate has made you powerful!"


    Arguably The Emperor shoots himself in the foot by contributing to Luke's realisation of where he is heading, and Luke's final rejection of the dark side here.



    - Luke and Anakin/Vader both simultaneously achieve heroic success because of their bond to each other. Luke letting go of his hate inspires Anakin to relinquish his grip on control and do the same.



    -
    Emperor: "He could destroy us."
    ...
    Vader: "You can destroy the Emperor, he has foreseen this." (double-meaning)
    ...
    Emperor: "His compassion for you will be his undoing."

    Luke of course destroys the Sith in a way they didn't foresee; through compassion for his father.















    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Vader's form under the mask provokes fear in others in ESB
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    But when he is unmasked after saving Luke, their expressions are of nothing but love
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]








    Endings of each film
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Return of the Jedi /// The Force Awakens


    First lines of of opening crawls:
    ROTJ - "Luke Skywalker has returned to his home planet of Tattooine..."
    TFA - "Luke Skywalker has vanished."


    The TFA crawl mentions Leia needs Luke's help in "restoring peace and justice to the galaxy". The PT and OT reference the Jedi as the "guardians of peace and justice" in the galaxy. And Luke's compassion in ROTJ inspires Anakin to restore balance to the force.




    Opening shots:
    [​IMG]
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    Eternal_Jedi likes this.
  14. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Return of the Jedi /// The Force Awakens
    (2)



    Shield powered on moon
    [​IMG]
    Weapon powered by draining sun
    [​IMG]






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    Han throws "business associate" to rathtar, which eats him then burps
    [​IMG]
    Han knocks Boba Fett into the sarlaac pit, the sarlaac eats him and burps
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]







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    Holo of Luke
    [​IMG]
    Holo of map to Luke
    [​IMG]








    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Return of the Jedi /// The Force Awakens
    (3)


    The attack on Starkiller base borrows from both ANH and ROTJ Deathstar battles.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


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    Ackbar: "Our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude!" /// Ackbar: "How is it possible to power a weapon of that size?"


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  16. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Return of the Jedi /// The Force Awakens
    (4)




    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]








    Leaving Tatooine
    [​IMG]
    Leaving Jakku
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    The Empire at it's peak
    [​IMG]
    Scavenging a relic of the fallen Empire, though the fanatical First Order has picked up the pieces
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    Vader successfully reading Luke's mind regarding Leia
    [​IMG]
    Kylo successfully reading Poe's mind regarding BB8
    [​IMG]
    Rey manages to resist Kylo
    [​IMG]









    [​IMG]
    "If you see our son, bring him home."
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Return of the Jedi /// The Force Awakens
    (5)


    ROTJ -
    Yoda: "That face you make. Look I so old to young eyes?"
    Luke: "No, of course not!"
    TFA -
    Kylo: "Look how old you've become."


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ROTJ -
    Leia: "Luke, run away! Run far away. If he can feel your presence then leave this place."
    TFA -
    Leia: "There is still light in him, I know it." ... "If you see our son, bring him home."

    Leia has little hope that Vader can be redeemed in ROTJ, but perhaps Luke's success at the film's climax contributes to her hope that her son Kylo can be brought back in the next film.
    The outcomes (so far) are opposite. Vader is spared by Luke, and taking Luke's offer of salvation, is inspired to save Luke's life.
    Han offers his son a chance to come back from the dark side, but Kylo rejects it and kills Han.
    Luke doesn't run from his father and Anakin is redeemed saving Luke. Han confronts Kylo at Leia's request and is killed.



    ROTJ -
    On the DSII Luke refuses to kill his father and ultimately rejects the dark side for good.
    TFA -
    On SK base, Kylo kills his father as a statement of his rejection against the pull of the light.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Han's happy ending in ROTJ is subverted by TFA with Han and Leia divorced and Han ultimately killed by their son.




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ROTJ -
    Luke and Leia volunteer to join their friend Han on the ground mission against the DSII.
    TFA -
    Han and Finn volunteer for the ground mission against Starkiller base, but Finn turns out to just be coming along to rescue Rey.


    Finn borrows Poe's jacket.
    Lando borrows the Millenium Falcon.


    ROTJ -
    Han: "I got an idea!" (Tricking the Imperials into letting the Rebels in, to shut down the DS2 shield).
    TFA -
    Finn: "I got an idea!" (Using Phasma to power down the shield).




    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM -
    Shmi: "There was no father. I carried him, I gave birth. I can't explain what happened."

    ROTJ -
    Luke: "I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her."
    ...
    Luke: "Then my father is truly dead."

    TFA -
    Kylo: "Han Solo; you feel like he is the father you never had. He would have disappointed you."


    SW is heavily lineage themed in general.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ROTJ -
    Emperor: "He will come to you, and then you will bring him before me."
    TFA -
    Snoke: "If what you have told me is true... bring her to me."



    Snoke wants Rey as Sidious wanted Luke.
    Vader wants Luke to join him making Vader the master. Kylo offers to take the role as Rey's mentor during their duel.



    In ROTJ Luke is the last hope for the Jedi, and a tempting prospective dark-sider for the Sith.
    Snoke: "If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise."




    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ROTJ -
    Vader: "I see you have constructed a new lightsaber."
    TFA -
    Phasma: "Submit your blaster for inspection!"

    ROTJ -
    Anakin: "Luke, help me take this mask off."
    TFA-
    Phasma: "And who gave you permission to remove that helmet?"



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ROTJ -
    R2 is confident Luke will succeed against Jabba's gang.
    TFA -
    When Luke blames himself for the failure of a new Jedi Order and goes into hiding, Artoo has loyally gone into low-power mode, until the end of the film.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    ROTJ -
    Resisting dark path;
    Emperor: "Take your Jedi weapon. I am unarmed. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!"
    TFA -
    Resisting light path;
    Maz: "The saber, take it!"
    Rey: "I'm never touching that thing again!"



    ROTJ -
    Luke: "You will bring captain Solo and the Wookie to me."
    TFA -
    Rey: "You will unlock these restraints and leave with the door open."





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    Luke defeats Vader in the third film of the OT:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Rey defeats Kylo in the first film of the ST:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    But before Rey is presented with the moral decision on whether to finish Kylo off, a chasm fatefully forms and separates the two duelists:
    [​IMG]





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    [​IMG]

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  18. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I was going to post this back in October. For reference, it completes the Return of The Jedi /// The Force Awakens analysis above.



    Confronting fathers (Dark father in ROTJ vs Dark son in TFA)

    YODA to LUKE: "One thing remains. Vader. You must confront Vader. Only then, a Jedi will you be."
    ///
    SNOKE: "Even you, Master of the Knights of Ren, has not faced so great a challenge."
    KYLO: "He means nothing to me."
    ///
    EMPEROR: "I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader."
    VADER: "They are clear, my Master."



    VADER: "My son is with them."
    ///
    HAN to LEIA: "I saw our son. He was here."



    Luke references Vader as "Anakin". Han calls Kylo "Ben".



    LUKE: "I can't do it, Ben! I can't kill my own father."
    ///
    KYLO: "I know what I have to do, but I don't know if I have the strength to do it."



    Vader is resisting the pull to light by a connection to his son.
    Kylo is resisting the pull to the light by a connection to his father.
    Anakin is redeemed by Luke, where inversely Kylo severs the tie and kills Han.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    HAN: "Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants he'll crush you. You know it's true."

    Echoes Sidious betraying everyone in the PT, and ultimately even casting Vader aside when trying to get him killed by Luke.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    LUKE: "I have accepted the truth that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father."
    VADER: "That name no longer has any meaning for me."
    LUKE: "It is the name of your true self, you've only forgotten!"
    ...
    VADER: "The Emperor will show you the true nature of the force. He is your master now."
    LUKE: "Then my father is truly dead."

    ///

    LOR SAN: "I know where you've come from. Before you called yourself Kylo Ren."
    ...
    KYLO: "Your son is dead. He was foolish like his father. So I destroyed him."
    HAN: "That's what Snoke wants you to believe. But it's not true. My son is alive."

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Vader and Kylo both have a personal reason for seeking Luke out.

    VADER: "I have felt him, my Master."
    EMPEROR: "Strange that I have not. I wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear, Lord Vader?"
    VADER: "They are clear, My master."
    ///
    HUX: "Be careful that your "personal interests" don't interfere with direct orders from Supreme Leader Snoke..."


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Leia's belief Han can redeem Kylo echoes Luke thinking he can save Anakin in ROTJ.
    However, at first Leia didn't believe Vader could be redeemed, but perhaps changed her mind on the similar issue when Luke was successful.

    LUKE: "There is good in him, I've felt it."
    ///
    LEIA: "There is still light in him, I know it."


    HAN: "When you look at me you are reminded of him."
    LEIA: "You think I want to forget him? I want him back."
    ///
    ANAKIN: "Just once, let me look on you with my own eyes..."
    Anakin sees Luke as a reminder of who he once was.

    Kylo however, isn't redeemed (so far). Leia's hope for Kylo ("Luke's a Jedi, you're his father.") arguably inspires Han's doomed effort.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Luke = Obi-Wan
    OBI-WAN: "I thought I could instruct him just a well as Master Yoda. I was wrong." = Luke failing to successfully train Kylo.


    Han = Obi-Wan
    HAN: "Used to wonder about that myself. Magical power, holding the universe together, the dark side and the light." ... "It's true. The force, the Jedi. All of it. It's all true."

    I think it is implied that Luke rescuing Han in ROTJ, and moments such as Leia sensing Luke wasn't killed when the DS2 explodes, are a big part of what changes his mind as to the existence of the force.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    LUKE (ROTJ): "As long as I stay I'm endangering the group and our mission here."
    ///
    HAN (TFA): "Luke felt responsible. He just walked away from everything."

    Luke technically isn't giving up in ROTJ, but there is some similarity in a referenced burden he has to bear.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    PADME to ANAKIN: "Come with me. Help me raise our child. Leave everything behind while we still can!"
    ///
    LUKE to VADER: "Come with me."
    ///
    HAN to KYLO: "Come home. We miss you."



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ROTS - Anakin saves Obi-Wan, after the Dooku fight.
    ROTJ - Luke saves Han, from Jabba's gang.
    TFA - Finn saves Poe, from the First Order.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    LEIA: "Luke, run away. Run far away! If he can sense your presence then leave this place. I wish I could go with you."
    LUKE: "No you don't, you've always been strong."

    ///

    MAZ to HAN: "You've been running from this fight for too long."
    ...
    MAZ: "Their shadow is spreading across the galaxy. We must face them. Fight them."
    FINN: "There is no fight against the First Order. Not one we can win. They'll slaughter us. We all need to run."



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HAN: "There's too much Vader in him."
    ///
    EMPEROR: "You, like your father, are now mine."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    EMPEROR to LUKE: "You want this, don't you?"
    ///
    KYLO to REY: "You still want to kill me."

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    EMPEROR: "From here you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance, and the end of your insignificant Rebellion."
    Palpatine fails to eliminate the Rebel Alliance despite expert planning.
    ///
    HUX: "Today is the end of the Republic!"
    Snoke wipes out the New Republic's central system.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Luke throws away his weapon in defiance of the Emperor and the dark side.
    ///
    KYLO: "That saber. It belongs to me!"

    ...

    LUKE: "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."
    ///
    MAZ: "It was Luke's and his father's before him."
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
    DarthWolvo23 and PCCViking like this.
  19. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    @Seagoat @Bazinga'd
    Could a mod please change the thread title slightly by adding "6/7" within the brackets? Thankyou.

    I fixed the broken links.
    It will make some of the more recent I posted from another photobucket account perhaps redundant but overall will be more cohesive.
     
  20. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    I mean, I'm not a mod for this section, but mayyyyyyyybe
     
  21. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Oops good point.

    Thanks though.
     
  22. PymParticles

    PymParticles Cruel but Fair Tyrant of New Films star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2014
    I hope you realize we all expect you to post the 7/8 comparisons within a day of The Last Jedi's digital release :p
     
  23. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    7/8 please :)