Clone Wars Missed or wasted opportunities in the show?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    It is obviously very, very hard to understand on Lucas's part.
  2. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I can understand in universe WHY the CIS would want to try to play both sides. Possibly to ensure survival of these corporations regardless of who ever wins. And while I no longer have the source (I think it was a quote from one of the DVD commentaries for TCW), I thought it was implied that eventually (had the show kept going) that we would have finally seen the commerce guilds formally withdraw from the Republic and join to CIS by the time of ROTS.

    But IMO the commerce guilds needed to be kicked out of the Republic after Senate Spy if not AOTC. Lucas consistently depicted the commerce guilds as the source of corruption in the Senate. Sidious manipulates the TF in TPM to create a situation that wins him a sympathy vote for the Chancellorship; then in AOTC he and Dooku manipulate the commerce guilds again to create fear within the Republic, enough to grant Palpatine emergency powers.

    Without the commerce guilds present in the senate for Palpatine to play like a fiddle, there would have been no Empire. But having said that, the time eventually needed to come for Palpatine to scapegoat the commerce guilds to justify his emergency powers, but instead it just makes Palpatine look ineffective when he allows them to keep their seats in the senate.

    Unless I completely misunderstood, I thought the point of the Clone Wars was to get Jedi killed, make Palpatine look like the Abraham Lincoln of the Star Wars universe that gets the Republic through a crisis that could have destroyed it, and earn Palpatine emergency powers by creating wide spread fear.

    Instead TCW goes the route of....

    1. An incompetent and cowardly Grievous -- Counterproductive if your goal is to create widespread fear.
    2. Wide spread Republic victories -- Counterproductive if your goal is to create widespread fear, justify emergency powers, and kill Jedi.
    3. Commerce guilds allowed to remain in senate -- If Palpatine wanted to justify emergency powers, he should have used them to persecute the commerce guilds (causing them to flee to the CIS) since it should have been common knowledge that they were corrupt. Exposing their corruption and chasing them from the Republic could have been a good use of increased executive powers, bypassing any bureaucratic procedures and making Palpatine look like he was doing some good with these new powers granted to him by the senate.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Nov 17, 2013
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  3. SeparatistFan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2012
    star 1
    It was annoying how often George changed his mind on things, I mean look what happened with Death Watch first off there is Dooku telling Pre Vizsla that he has other plans to help him take over Mandalore, but that doesn't get followed up on and then we are left with the Death Watch having Dooku's location which again didn't get followed up on and then there's Savage Opress a cool character who was created to be a Darth Maul like villain for the show, but then Lucas decided to bring Maul back which turned Savage in to a back seat villain.

    Separatist Leaders would have been easy to fit in during the later seasons, S1 is a good example of that. A CIS leader being in the Citadel arc being there in person stressing Sobeck out would have been brilliant. If you just count what happened in AOTC and ROTS the corporations being neutral story would have worked for all the corporation leaders apart from Nute Gunray if Lucas had chosen to go down that route at the beginning of the show. I hope that if TCW era ever gets revisited on screen we get CIS Council Leaders and that they will be done like Gunray and Tambor were in the early days of the show.
    CommanderDrenn likes this.
  4. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    Exactly. I still want to know what happened. We see a massive Mando-Sep army, with Hover Tanks and Mandalorian Soldiers, and we don't even see what happens. Do we ever see those tanks? Is there some kind of explanation that went on in the background? I don't know.
  5. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    A missed opportunity was to use Delta Squad at least once in a more prominent role. They already had the models from Season 3...and I know they didn't want to interfere with Delta Squad's canon, but with the length of time between each RC novel, they could've done anything short of killing off one of the members, and it would've been all right.
  6. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Also, didn't Filoni say that Anakin would address and teach Ahsoka how to properly wield her lightsaber to get her to stop using a reverse grip? I guess Dave didn't want his waifu to be wrong about something.

    EDIT: Come to think of it . . . Aside from one or two episodes, I don't think we see Anakin teach Ahsoka much of anything at all! They act more like partners than teacher and student.

    Then again, what can a mere Skywalker teach Filoni's Super Special Awesome Padawan True Chosen One Sex Goddess Waifu? They really should of swallowed their pride and elected Ahsoka Queen of the Jedi. That's right. They made a title just for her. Cuz she's that much more special than YOU are.
    Last edited by Heero_Yuy, Nov 20, 2013
  7. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    The SSAPTCOSGW.

    Or is that FSSAPTCOSGW?

    It's quite the mouthful either way.
  8. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ^ I know, I'm working on it.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  9. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Meh, Queen of the Jedi is for amateurs.

    Wait until you get the FilonIsney Recut of SW.

    Yippekayay Wifechoker (open)
    [IMG]

    Adios Sidioso (open)
    [IMG]

    Hasta la Vista Boba (open)
    [IMG]

    Hail the Empress (open)
    [IMG]

    If your name is anakinfansince1983 you may want to hook up a Jagermeister IV before looking at the above images.
    Last edited by Darth Valkyrus, Nov 20, 2013
  10. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Mad Skillz Snips will take Yoda's place on Dagobah.

    As far as the show, Ahsoka was Anakin's apprentice in season 1 and at least some of season 2, after that she was in charge. If she didn't agree with Anakin or the Council, they all after about five seconds eventually became enlightened decided she was right.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  11. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Those are simply amazing. It's missing where Ahsoka goes on to marry the handsome, roguish ex-Jedi (he left the council due to being too perfect) Dav Filo-Ni. Complete with silly hat.

    EDIT: Even better. She conquers both the Jedi AND the Sith to found a new order. The Ahsoka OrderTM.
    Last edited by Heero_Yuy, Nov 20, 2013
  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4

    The last one lacks a boob hole for proper sweaty boob relief. Other than that they all look fine.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  13. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
  14. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    There also needs to be a bit where Ahsoka trains Luke, teaching him way better than either Obi Wan or Yoda.
    Last edited by Heero_Yuy, Nov 22, 2013
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  15. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    Joking aside, how would you feel if there was an episode where the now-mercenary Grimsoka ran into Bail & co. and got stuck with them for a few days... either during a rescue, extraction from hazardous circumstances, or even just some supposed-to-be-momentary deal that went south and resulted in a protracted running incident spanned over some time... during this time, she observes Bail and his retinue, including his young supposed daughter... and realizes after a while that there is something a little different from the norm about said daughter, something special. Subtle - but over a day or two, Ahsoka, being the kinda person attuned to notice such things, notices.

    She can see things before they happen. It's a Jedi trait.

    This leads things in an unexpected and downbeat direction. The windup of the episode is a bad falling-out between Ahsoka Tano, and the Organa clan. Well, Bail Organa in particular. There is a furious, blazing, shouted row between Bail and Ahsoka, the former wanting to keep his adopted kid away from anything that even approaches "Jedi stuff" while the latter insists that as a Force-sensitive, she should be trained to use it, and in refusing this, Bail is wasting his daughter's ability and denying her her birthright. It ends up with Ahsoka departing in a foul mood and probably permanently at odds with the Organas.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Bring back her sass, and I like it.

    As long as it ends as you said and not with "Leia must be trained. Ahsoka said so." :p
  17. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I feel like the life Leia Organa was given was a little too high profile for the Jedi to risk training her. She was the daughter of some guy that tried to raise a petition against Palpatine and thus they were probably watched closely by the Empire and she had her whole life helping her adoptive father organize the rebellion. I think she had her own role to play that was equally important to Luke's, but that Luke was probably singled out as the one for Jedi training since he was raised on a backwater far from the eyes of the Empire, and thus they could probably have better odds of training him without the Emperor finding out.

    And personally I just don't think that Ahsoka should appear that closely linked to major characters or events anymore. I fully expect for her to crop up again, particularly in Rebels. I don't want her to, but I would still be surprised if she didn't. But for instance I don't want her to try to turn Anakin back to the light side or be involved in Luke or Leia or Bail in any way. And if she does cross paths with Vader at all, I don't think she should even realize that it's Anakin.
  18. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    When I speak of Grimsoka... I don't mean too over the top depressingly grim, but a lot grimmer and darker than the happy girl of TCW.

    Try to imagine a blend of Kira Nerys and T2-era Sarah Connor. That's the kinda mentality I have in mind.
  19. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    ...God did I have the biggest crush on Nana Visitor from DS9... In hindsight, I wish Padme was more like Kira.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Nov 24, 2013
    Darth Valkyrus likes this.
  20. Lord Ctessor Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Hey, they could show up in Rebels.
  21. Contessa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2013
    star 2
    Missed opportunities?

    They missed a big opportunity by going with such a tiny cast. There's loads of interesting characters during the Clone Wars and we get the same three characters over and over and over? Meh. Diversify! Speaking of diversity, the show seriously missed an opportunity to showcase more people of color. We got a ton of aliens and that's cool, but almost every important human was white except for Mace, and he got less screan time than any other movie Jedi. Not to mention the two strong women of color, Adi and Steela, both get killed in ****** deaths and they whitewashed the hell out of Mandalore. Diversify! Why was Grievous not a badass? Why was Dooku not charismatic and charming? Why didn't Ahsoka actually get to grow in a real story arc, not have her powers and personality change as the plot demanded? This show was pretty good, but it had more missed opportunities than a stormtrooper target range.
  22. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    star 4
    Good points, and I'd like to highlight these in particular. The human populations in worlds like Mandalore and Onderon were indeed quite homogeneous. As you've mentioned, the New Mandalorians (and Death Watch, for that matter) were quite 'whitewashed', and in fact nearly everyone was blonde-haired and blue or green-eyed. Sheesh. That certainly made a redhead like Bo-Katan stand out like a sore thumb. Now, to be fair, the citizens of Iziz on Onderon seemed to mostly be underrepresented minorities, as far as I can tell. There were also quite a number of folks with varying skin tones/pigments. Indeed, nearly all the main rebel Onderonians, like Steela and Saw Gerrera, were clearly minorities, and interestingly enough, of the named Onderonians only the villainous Sanjay Rash was clearly a Caucasian. Adi Gallia was a Tholothian, and they are apparently all dark-skinned, according to the Wook, and the only other character in TCW of her race was Katooni. And I'm sure you're already aware of the Asian stereotyped Ming Po, another example of a Near-Human race squarely fitting under the umbrella of a minority. [face_sigh]

    Now, at least for the humans in Mandalore and Onderon, one can argue that they were just lazy and didn't want to make so many character models. But honestly, how hard would it be to have a more heterogeneous population simply by changing skin pigmentation and maybe a few subtle differences in facial features? I'm sorta thinking along the lines of character customization in Mass Effect, which BTW was a game with an excellent amount of diversity in its human cast. Heck, even the aliens were often well differentiated based on pigmentation and other features, adding to this diversity. Perhaps one can say that Star Wars is lagging a bit in this aspect. I wonder if Rebels will rectify that, or stick to a cast of humans whose race and ethnicity are more comparable to the largely white cast of the OT. Remember, they want to make that series more like the OT... But in this case, I'm hoping we get a more diverse cast of human characters on both the side of the rebels and the Imperials.
    Contessa and Mia Mesharad like this.
  23. BobaFan101 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2013
    I feel it was a wasted opputtunity for Maul to be ruler over Mandalore for one episode. Mixing mandalorians with darth maul was the coolest thing they've done in the clone wars. A third faction in the war would have been great, but instead they kill savage and Viszla, then get rid of maul to where we will probably never see him again.
  24. GreatBeyonder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2013
    star 1

    He's still ruler. He just now has Sidious breathing down his neck.
  25. Darth Valkyrus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 4
    You gotta admit Maul was a bit dumb thinking Sidious wouldn't come for him.

    Maul was setting up his own rival Sith empire outta Mandalore, and there was no way Sids was going to just sit by and let this unforseen new side-threat to his grand plan grow and grow.

    Maul should have had Mandalore much more heavily prepared and readied for an appearance by Sidious. For one thing, all ships arriving at the planet should have been scanned and ordered to state their cargo / pax and destination. Maybe a bit of random heave-too-and-prepare-to-be-boarded inspection of ships while still in orbit, before letting them descend into the atmosphere.

    And then Palpatine's shuttle shows up at this mostly deserted landing pad with just two guards, who try to detain him at gunpoint but are quickly choked and he takes their speeder and heads for the palace unhindered. The on-planet defense should have been much more robust and in-depth than that. That nobody in that throne room had any idea Sidious was even on-planet until he was right outside the door is kinda silly.