Mitchell Report on Steroid Use in Baseball

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by yankee8255, Dec 13, 2007.

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  1. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Looks like this is going to be a major bombshell, as many as 80 players are named, and the league as well as the players are slammed pretty hard.


  2. imperial_dork Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2003
    star 6
    CNN is reporting that Roger Clemens has been named in the report.

    I'm shocked. Except, not.
  3. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    No! Not Roger! No! [/sarcasm]
  4. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    The guy who ratted Clemens out to Mitchell is a high school classmate of mine. I'm so proud.

    And Clemens isn't the only Yankee named, apparently:


    [image=http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/reviewa/ranger_mngmnt.jpg]
    Goosfraba, Rocket, Goosfraba indeed.
  5. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    The only name I hope I see is Curt Schilling. That would make the whole Panel on congress a joke, except Canseco.

    Remember:

    Sosa all of a sudden forgot how to speak english

    McGuire wouldn't talk...except about the future

    Palmiero did not take steroids...period...oh wait, he did

    And Schilling denied everything, and pointed the finger at Canseco, the only man telling the truth.

    I can't wait for this report.
  6. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
  7. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    And if that's too much reading for you, here's the highlights:

    Chad Allen
    Rick Ankiel
    David Bell
    Mike Bell
    Marvin Benard
    Gary Bennett, Jr.
    Larry Bigbie
    Barry Bonds
    Kevin Brown
    Paul Byrd
    Jose Canseco
    Mark Carreon
    Jason Christiansen
    Howie Clark
    Roger Clemens
    Jack Cust
    Brendan Donnelly
    Chris Donnels
    Lenny Dykstra
    Bobby Estalella
    Matt Franco
    Ryan Franklin
    Eric Gagné
    Jason Giambi
    Jeremy Giambi
    Jay Gibbons
    Troy Glaus
    Jason Grimsley
    Jose Guillen
    Jerry Hairston, Jr.
    Matt Herges
    Phil Hiatt
    Glenallen Hill
    Darren Holmes
    Todd Hundley
    Mike Judd
    David Justice
    Matt Karchner
    Chuck Knoblauch
    Tim Laker
    Mike Lansing
    Paul Lo Duca
    Exavier "Nook" Logan
    Josias Manzanillo
    Gary Matthews, Jr.
    Cody McKay
    Kent Mercker
    Bart Miadich
    Hal Morris
    Daniel Naulty
    Denny Neagle
    Jim Parque
    Andy Pettitte
    Adam Piatt
    Todd Pratt
    Stephen Randolph
    Adam Riggs
    Brian Roberts
    John Rocker
    F.P. Santangelo
    Benito Santiago
    Scott Schoeneweis
    David Segui
    Gary Sheffield
    Mike Stanton
    Ricky Stone
    Miguel Tejada
    Ismael Valdez
    Mo Vaughn
    Randy Velarde
    Ron Villone
    Fernando Viña
    Rondell White
    Jeff Williams
    Matt Williams
    Todd Williams
    Steve Woodard
    Kevin Young
    Gregg Zaun
  8. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    After what's already happened with McGwire, this could really throw a wrench into future HOF voting.
  9. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    If Clemens is truly guilty he's right behing Judas on biggest back stabbing S.O.B's ever.
  10. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    lol, how did Sosa manage to escape that list?
  11. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
  12. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    It's because he doesn't speak English.



    Allegedly.
  13. Obese_1_Ka-Blooey Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2006
    star 4
    Some symbols were messed up in that list of players, so here's a slightly better one, though in order of appearance in the report, not alphabetically:

    Randy Velarde
    Barry Bonds
    Marvin Benard
    Bobby Estallela
    Armando Rios
    Benito Santiago
    Gary Sheffield
    Len Dykstra
    David Segui
    Larry Bigbie
    Brian Roberts
    Jack Cust
    Tim Laker
    Josias Manzanillo
    Todd Hundley
    Mark Carreon
    Hal Morris
    Matt Franco
    Rondell White
    Roger Clemens
    Andy Pettitte
    Chuck Knoblauch
    Jason Grimsley
    Gregg Zaun
    David Justice
    F.P. Santangelo
    Glenallen Hill
    Mo Vaughn
    Denny Neagle
    Ron Villone
    Ryan Franklin
    Chris Donnels
    Todd Williams
    Phil Hiatt
    Todd Pratt
    Kevin Young
    Mike Lansing
    Cody McKay
    Kent Mercker
    Adam Piatt
    Miguel Tejada
    Jason Christiansen
    Mike Stanton
    Stephen Randolph
    Jerry Hairston, Jr.
    Paul Lo Duca
    Adam Riggs
    Bart Miadich
    Fernando Vina
    Kevin Brown
    Eric Gagne
    Mike Bell
    Matt Herges
    Gary Bennett, Jr.
    Jim Parque
    Brendan Donnelly
    Chad Allen
    Jeff Williams
    Howie Clark
    Exavier "Nook" Logan
    Rick Ankiel
    David Bell
    Paul Byrd
    Jose Canseco
    Jay Gibbons
    Troy Glaus
    Jose Guillen
    Darren Holmes
    Gary Matthews, Jr.
    John Rocker
    Scott Schoeneweis
    Ismael Valdez
    Matt Williams
    Steve Woodard
    Jason Giambi
    Jeremy Giambi
    Manny Alexander
    Juan Gonzalez
    Ken Caminiti
    Paxton Crawford
    Luis Perez
    Derrick Turnbow
    Ricky Bones
    Ricky Stone



    I gotta tell you, it's really hard for me to see some of those names. I grew up idolizing guys like Matt Williams, Marvin Bernard, FP Santangelo, Glenallen Hill, Benito Santiago, Bobby Estallela, and of course Bonds, all of whom were Giants not too long ago.

    It makes me sick reading so many mentionable names. Until now, I always though baseball was the infallible sport. It's truly sad.
  14. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    His dealers/suppliers didn't talk.
  15. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2006
    star 5
    Now that the names have been listed, it begs the following questions:

    1. How many other players not listed are also guilty?

    2. Will fans totally turn their backs towards baseball?

    3. Will other sports (football especially) now get more scrutiny as well?

    4. Which players will say that the report is not truthful about them?

    5. Will the future HOF eligible candidates be shunned by the writers?
  16. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Without reading four hundred some odd pages, does the report state when it is believed players used steroids and stuff like that? Or just say that they used them?
  17. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    The NFL will never ban steroids. Most of the NFL is more juiced than Bonds or the Russian from Rocky IV combined:p

    Those guys are huge for a reason...

    Clemens though, I still can't believe it. In fact I chose not to believe it, simply because Mitchell only has one person backing him up on it. Who they threatened with perjury charges to get information out of.

    Debate to bring up, Mitchell has some ownership in the Red Sox and only three former Red Sox players were found to have done steroids (Gagne, Clemens and Vaughn) and 16 Yankees are found to have used steroids. Can we scream bias here?!

    I honestly think in the long run we have an old fashioned McCarthy witch hunt.
  18. Juliet316 Streak for Colours Bonanza Winner

    Game Winner
    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7

    Yeah fried foods. A lot of those guys are simply fat, not muscled up like Bonds and Clemons are.

    We (NFL) had a comprehensive drug testing policy long before Baseball imploded with the steriod scandal. We lived through are own steriod scandal in the 80's and learned from it.

    Now how long before the NBA gets hits with a steriod scandal? Seems like the last sport that hasn't be touched by it.
  19. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Take one look at Ray Lewis (or ex-Knick Larry Johnson for basketball) and tell me he isn't juiced to the point of bursting.
  20. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    After reading various articles about it, and pieces of the report itself (no way am I reading that entire thing, I have better things to spend that time on), it seems like a lot of the evidence against a bunch of players is so flimsy it would be laughed out of court, or more likely never even manage to get in the courtroom at all, let alone actually be tried or successful.

    Coincidentally, from an ESPN.com article about that, happening to mention the one name I was most disappointed to see on the list (Roberts is a former Gamecock shortstop)

    "Take Brian Roberts, for example.

    Nobody in here has a bigger beef than he does. What's the "evidence" in his case? An alleged lunch date with Radomski, David Segui and Larry Bigbie -- after which Segui is said to have bought steroids (with Roberts not present). And Bigbie's claim that Roberts told him he used steroids "once or twice," even though Bigbie never witnessed it or even suspected it.

    That's it. No syringes. No empty bottles. No shipping labels. Nada. I can't think of any self-respecting editor I've ever worked for or with who would have allowed me to write a news story based on "evidence" that flimsy. So what's it doing in a report that cost more than the Florida Marlins' entire payroll?"

    And plenty of others are in the same boat. So, basically, this sums up my thoughts as of now:

    Are most of the people named in the report guilty? Probably.
    Are there a number of people on the list that are truly innocent? Just as probably. A smaller number, most likely, but I would wager they are there, though obviously its impossible to tell who they are, at least right now.
    Should the report have been written? Yeah, but I think it could have been written a lot better and its contents made a lot clearer to the public.

    I wonder if the reason Mitchell kept recommending not taking action was that he knew a lot of his evidence was so incredibly flimsy.
  21. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Great points, Rogue.

    I think the thing to remember is the report wasn't intended to find all users of performance enhancing drugs in baseball and expose them to the public. The purpose of the report was to show how widespread the problem was in baseball, how easy the old systems were to bypass, and how the sport needed to change to move forward. And, I think it did that.
  22. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I agree, it did. I just think that unfortunately, most people are only going to look at the list of names and decide for themselves that every one of those players did steroids/HGH beyond any shadow of a doubt, which is about as far from the truth as possible.

    As much as people wanted the list of names (and I include myself in that list of wanting to see the names because I thought there would be more solid evidence behind them), I think the report would have been far better without names - and I think it could have still accomplished the point of showing how widespread it is, etc, etc.
  23. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    Probably. But without the names, it wouldn't generate nearly as much publicity for itself. And that's part of the battle with Steroids. If the public cares and there is pressure put on MLB, the movement to ban steroids will succeed. If the public doesn't care, MLB can just continue to put fake band-aids on the problem, and be just fine. So, really, the report needed the names (and perhaps even needed the controversy about the names) to make the report as successful as possible in changing the steroid culture in baseball.
  24. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    True, it wouldn't have generated as much publicity... but is the publicity its getting the publicity that it should be getting? The people it really needed to affect were those surrounding and involved in MLB and those fans that really follow it, who would have been looking for the report with or without names, in most cases. Not so important just for the Average Joe on the street.
  25. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    The average joe who isn't a huge baseball fan might stop in his tracks if he catches a headline that says "Roger Clemens named as a steroid user". And so, that helps with the publicity and theoretically with the outcry, and theoretically again with the results. And you can't just name big name players, or else it is a witch hunt. So you name every player that you have some piece of evidence against.

    Although, I agree. Brian Roberts shouldn't have been listed from what I understand of what they have on him.
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