Mitchell Report on Steroid Use in Baseball

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by yankee8255, Dec 13, 2007.

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  1. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Theoretically, maybe.

    I agree completely that the average person will stop in their tracks seeing a headline about Clemens like that, I'm just not sure thats the kind of publicity this report needs.

    EDIT: Incidentally, the front page of the local (Columbia) paper (not just the sports page, either) featured large pictures of Roberts and Clemens... though there was one good article on Roberts and exactly what the Mitchell report said about him, and talking about how weak the evidence was. Also made the good point at the end that for all we know, Roberts may indeed have used steroids, but that the evidence presented is far too weak to simply assume he did. Amazingly, it was written by the one person known for writing horrible articles, and who has only written a couple decent ones that I've seen over the years he's worked here.
  2. Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    The big story over here, regarding the report, is that Clemens started using them when he came to Toronto. And of course he ended up winning back-to-back Cy Young awards.
  3. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    Are steroids illegal in Canada, and if not, is even an issue in Clemen's cause?
  4. Boba_Fett_2001 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 8
    http://www.dnd.ca/health/services/health_promotion/engraph/factsheet_anabolicSteroid_e.asp

    Are anabolic steroids illegal? In Canada, anabolic steroids and their derivatives are considered "Controlled Substances" and as such it is illegal to manufacture, import, export or sell these substances. Canadian Forces members are not exempt from this legislation and this is further reiterated in the Canadian Forces Drug Control Program as outlined in CFAO 19-21. Despite all of the above, using anabolic steroids is not illegal.

    lol @ the legal system

    :p
  5. DT421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2003
    star 5
    Oh, well that explains this then...

    [image=http://www.groinfatigue.com/clemens_hurls_bat_at_piazza.jpg]

    'ROID RAGE!!!!
  6. mrjop2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2007
    star 4
    This Mitchell report is a stupid joke! Yes, there is a steroid problem, but I think this Mitchell report is more of a witch hunt then it is factual. Andy Pettite is proving that.

    He was named on that report, and now he is delivering hard evidence today that he is innocent. He admits taking HGH for only 2 days in his entire career back in 2002 when they were still legal. He was out with an injury and was told by a doctor that it would help the healing progress. With it being perfectly legal at the time, he still stopped after two days saying that it just feels wrong. He has never used it one day in his playing career, and he his proving it. The Mitchell report is just finger pointing to either try to make things look worse than they actually are or try to pass the blame to other people.

    If Andy Pettite is innoncent which is looking like the case, a good number on that list could be in the same case. If there is going to an investigating, someone is going to have to do a better job than this Mitchell character, because it seems he is more interested in bringing down the sport of Baseball than he is solving the steroid problem.

    I am saying this not because I am a huge Yankees fan. I am willing to accept and believe Roger Clemens is guilty of the charges. Who knows, I would be willing to believe A-Rod is guilty too, but I knew from the very beginning that Andy Pettite was innocent. He is a God fearing man, and I have heard him speak. The things he had been accused of in this report is completly out of his characteristic. If Mitchell was wrongabout Pettite, he could very easily be wrong with others.
  7. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2003
    star 4
    Then why are these players named not taking legal action? There was a Lawyer on television saying that anyone named is well within their right to take this to court if they are wrongly acused. They have just cause to defend themselves in a court of law.

    I will tell you why they don't...They do not want to perjure themselves.

    Andy Pettite might be a God fearing man, but he also used HGH. We do not know if he used it more than once or twice. Hearing him speak is not proof that he could not be telling the truth.

  8. mrjop2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2007
    star 4
    He used it only twice and back when it was legal, and for medical reasons only. The fact that he stopped only after two days shows that he is a man of conviction and morals. Through the years, he has made choices that confirmed that. He has earned my respect and if he says he has not taken illegal drugs, I believe him, especially if he is willing to prove it. He should not be blamed for doing something that was legal nor should he lose his reputation over it. At least he was truthful about it, and why shouldn't he, because he did nothing wrong.

    Evidence is starting to show that some of these alligations are false. I am confident Pettite will take legal action soon as will all the ones that are innocent. This report has only been released in the last couple of days.

    Don't get me wrong, I am sure a good number of players on that lits are guilty, but I am also confident that not everyone on the list is guilty. This report is hardly proof enough and only takes the opinion of two sports trainers. I am all for cleaning up the sport. I have been convinced Barry Bonds is guility. I am willing to admit that Roger Clemens is also possible.

    I believe this report is not enough evidence to ruin any careers. I believe Bud Selig should be replaced. Andy Pettite is going to bring forh the hard evidence, as will any others that are innocent players. We should not be quick to judge players solely on this report which evidence is slowly starting to show has some inncorrect data.

    I just think it's sad that all it takes is one person pointing a finger at a player to ruin the player's reputation. Jose Conseco should mind his own buisness since he is not the one responsible for the investigation. To me, he is being an idiot who wants to drag people down with him. If A-Rod is guilty find, but Conseco should let the investigation handle it.

  9. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Yeah, but Conseco got the ball rolling so to speak with his tell - all and naming names in that book.
  10. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    It's important to point out that this is only a drop in the bucket of suspected players, and is incomplete when it comes to number of players that have actually juiced.

    The majority of the people that have shown up on the list, the commission has pretty substantial reason(and evidence) that proves that the players listed are guilty of taking performance enhancing drugs.

    As far as Pettite is concerned, he admitted to using HGH. I'm not quite sure why you're trying to defend him. I don't care how long he took them, he still took to them and has admitted to such. What if Bonds only took one cycle of roids? Would you be defending him too?

    Honestly, if performance enhancers and steroids didn't cause medical issues down the road, I could care less whether they decided to allow them or not. However, if you're going to hold one player to a standard of guilt than you have to hold every player that ever got an unfair advantage from any of these substances, to the same scrutiny.

    DRHJ9 was 100% correct when saying that the reason that none of these players have taken legal action is because they don't want to perjure themselves. In case you didn't notice mrjop2, that's the only reason that Bonds has been indicted. Whether he actually took performance enhancers has no legal baring on his case, other than the fact that he lied to a federal grand jury. I'm actually pretty surprised that they haven't gone after Palmero, though.
  11. mrjop2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2007
    star 4
    I would agree under most circumstances but when a player tries growth homones twice, while on the DL and use it while legal and as suggested by a sports trainer to help heal the joint and not use it to cheat, than I think it's a whole different ball of wax. Maybe taking the homones for the two days was a bad choice, despite it being legal, but it was clearly not used to cheat because he was not even playing during the time even as the report itself admits. In this case, I don't think he should have his career destroyed when he never cheated. Every player's story is different, some innoncent and some guilty. I will not speak for all the other players, but based on Pettite's situation, I think he should be let off the hook, and I think he should sue for the rest of the fabrications that were made up. If Roger clemens is innocent, I don't know if he is or not, but if he is then he should continue to press foward with the lawsuit which he has started today.
  12. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    And for what reason do you think that accusations were fabricated specifically for Pettite? He admitted to using hgh a few times. Doesn't automatically mean that he didn't either do anything else, nor take other substances on a longer basis.

  13. mrjop2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2007
    star 4
    To me, this argument no longer matters having just found out that the Mitchel says that in his report he suggesting that Andy Petttie's offense is minute and he should not face any ridicule or punishment. He acknowledges that Pettite is a man of integrity and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame after he retires. Maybe I jumped the gun and the Mitchell Report is an honest look. I knew Andy Pettite was a man of integrity and had no intentions of cheating in any way, and Mitchel just now proved me to be right.

    As for the other players, I hope they use common sense and admit to their mistakes. All this time, I thought the report was wanting punishment for a man I was sure did not deserve it, but since that's not the case, I admit I might have jmped the gun and maybe the report is fair and honest report.
  14. SLR Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2002
    star 5
    Even if the report's accusations against Petite or Clemens are false or inaccurate, it will be extremely difficult for either of them (or anyone else named in that report for that matter) to win in a lawsuit. Petite, Clemens and the other players are all public figures and are held to a higher standard of proof in winning a libel/defamation lawsuit. In addition to proving the other elements of these offenses, they also have to show that Mitchell and the other report writers acted with malice. Which basically means that not only would they have to show that the accusations were false but also that Mitchell and the other report writers knew the accusations were false but printed them anyway. If they relied on the testimony and evidence provided in making these accusations (regardless of whether it was reasonable to rely on it or not), as long as they believed that the testimony and evidence were correct, they will not be held to be liable in a libel/defamation suit, even if Petite/Clemens or any other player can prove that the accusations were false.
  15. mrjop2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2007
    star 4
    Truthfully, and all my fellow Yankee fans may or may not cruicify me for saying this, but I can care less about Clemens. :D. Truthfully, I could believe that he is juiced, and most of the other players on the list I don't know enough to comment on. It was strictly Andy Pettite that really bothered me. I am just glad that Mitchel acknowledges Pettite's integrity and that he deserves to be recognized in the hall of fame as such. Besides, my opinion would have changed of him if Pettite did sue. Being a man of similar faith as him, he would be violating his faith by sueing and in my opinion would have lost his integrity. I think he handled this situation better than I did. LOL! Clemens, bleh, he can sue if he wants but I agree, it's just going to end up being a he-said-she-said situation. If he is guilty, I hope he does not make the hall of fame. The same for all the cheaters, but just don't tarnish someone who doesn't deserve it.

    I'm kind of overly sensative to stuff like this. I've grown up taking a lot of garbage for being blamed for things that I did not do, and it bothers me to no end when it happens to a good and decent man.
  16. ApolloSmileGirl Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2004
    star 8
    And once again, other than the fact that he claims not to have cheated, exactly what do you know that nobody else does that his claims are legitimate? It's already a case of he said/she said.
  17. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7

    I think, if I recall correctly, that Palmiero and the others that testified before Congress were given immunity before hand. I could be wrong, but I do believe that was what happened before Palmeiro would testify. I don't believe any such guarantee was given to Bonds, hence why he was not there.

    As for Ray Lewis (murderer though he maybe, but that is a subject for another thread), he has been that size since he first came into the league, and has never to my knowledge failed a drug test. And the NFL has been testing for performance enhancing drugs and tinkering with the system when necessary for almost 20 years now. The only reason there hasn't been a steriod scandal in the NBA is because it's been besieged by more off - the court issues and players starting riots in arenas then being able to focus on a drug policy.

    And I agree this is just a mere drop in the bucket. I would suspect that this is just the beginning not just for Baseball but for all sports.
  18. Thrawn1786 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2004
    star 5
    I agree. Andy Pettite has always been one of my favorite players, so when I first heard his name was on the list, I was a little upset, but when he said it was HGH I calmed down. Heck, when I had ankle surgery(a bone chip affecting 25% of the joint)last year the doctors injected HGH into the chip so it would grow back normally with the rest of the bone. There's nothing wrong with using HGH, I believe it is legal.
  19. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    I'm a bit torn on Pettite . He was always one of my favorite player son my favorite team, so it's hard for me to be objective. All in all, I'm glad he confessed, and I tend to believe him when he says he only did it twice. He certainly doesn't have the typical "steroid" body. And everything else we know about him indicates he's a good guy (not just because of the religiousness thing). He#s always been a model citizen, in fact. The report even seems to back up his assertion.
  20. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
  21. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Without commenting further on the merits of Pettitte's assertion, I wonder how many will try his "limited use" excuse.
  22. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I suspect that the limited use part is probably true for at least several of those named, particularly those for whom there is little evidence. But many of them probably did use steroids/HGH repeatedly, etc.
  23. mrjop2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2007
    star 4
    Actually, the situation with Pettite is null now. Again, Mitchell says in his report and has said several times during news inteviews that Pettites offense is hardly a problem and does not deserve any form of punishment. So to me, if Pettite's accuser says that, then Pettite is out of the woods legally for now. THe only problem Pettite has now is the situation with Clemens. The two of them have been very close friends, but I have a feeling that Pettite's confession will incriminate Clemens, causing him to loose his legacy. If that happens, I have a feeling a huge feud is bound take place and a friendship will be lost forever. How this affects the Yankees this year is hard to say.
  24. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    I was thinking the same thing. Pettitte's admission definitely lends credence to McNammee's assertions, thus seeming to confirm Clemens's guilt. Not sure a deterioration in their friendship will have a big impact, as Clemens probably wasn't going to pitch again anyway.
  25. yankee8255 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 6
    Well, Clemens is suing McNamee for defamation. Surprised, since his case is hurt pretty badly by the Pettitte admission. I wonder if Pettitte will testify.
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