Mitchell Report on Steroid Use in Baseball

Discussion in 'Archive: The Arena' started by yankee8255, Dec 13, 2007.

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  1. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

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    I agree with some that say Clemens did this to protect himself if he goes before congress. Clemens can avoid tough questions by saying that he can't answer due to pending legal action.

    It is funny to see the double standard though, it seems like people are looking for ways for Roger to be telling the truth, where Bonds is just atomatically guilty (which I think he is).

    The only thing I will say about that is, at least Clemens is taking action. That hurts Bonds, since Bonds could do the same thing, but hasn't.

    I also hate the "never tested positive" argument for both. Of course they didn't, because there is no reliable test for HGH, and the Steroid testing is still a Joke.
  2. yankee8255 Chosen One

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    DRHJ9, he can't really use the suit as an excuse, anyway -- it's a civil suit that he instigated, not a criminal proceeding. Big difference.

    Also, Congress has now postponed the hearings until February so that they can take depositions of all the witnesses. Meaning Clemens will have a far harder time avoiding answering questions.

    I have to say, reading the articles on McNamee's reaction to Clemens taping the conversations really made me start to feel bad for my high school classmate. He brought this all on himself, for sure, but he's totally screwed no matter what he does, and he knows it.

    Lastly, it's going to very interesting to see what Pettitte does in all of this, given his close friendship with Clemens, but his own decision to be forthright and admit using. Most likely he's just going to say that he can only testify about what he did himself, but to an extent he's going to have to decide between Clemens and McNamee. You'd like to think he'd opt for supporting the guy who's telling the truth.
  3. yankee8255 Chosen One

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    A good excerpt from Frank DeFord's article at si.com:


  4. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

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    I wondered about the same thing, why didn't Roger simply tell him to say that he did not inject him? If Clemens was innocent, he would have said a lot more in that phone conversation.

  5. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

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    Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte Sticking Needles in their Butts:

    [image=http://images.sportsbybrooks.com/7/9/7998a572a9644dea5c6dad3d6a6670ef_rogerclemensandypettitte.jpg]
  6. George_Roper Jedi Grand Master

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    Not baseball related but Marion Jones got sentenced to 6 months in prison, 2 years probation, and community service for lying to federal prosecutors investigating the use of performance-enhancing substances.
  7. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

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  8. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

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    As useful as Donald Fehr wants it to be.
  9. yankee8255 Chosen One

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    QFT.

    Nice to see that Congress is finally going to grill Fehr and Selig, who are as big a part of the problem as anything. It's really time someone made them sweat.
  10. yankee8255 Chosen One

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  11. RX_Sith C&G Game Host

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  12. DarthIntegral Game Winner

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    And if it's not true, McNamee is going to go down as the biggest, oddest liar in the history of sports. Just a bizarre claim on all fronts, really.
  13. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    At this point, I have no idea what to believe. So I'll continue to wait before I decide who is telling the truth. But I will say this: its almost certain at this point that either Clemens or McNamee will end up in jail.
  14. DarthIntegral Game Winner

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    Very true. And who knows, perhaps both will end up there. :p
  15. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    Quite possible. More likely it'll be whichever one loses, though, and not the other.

    And as much impact as the physical evidence McNamee apparently handed over could have, the arguments of the other side aren't without merit, either - not only did McNamee tell Mitchell that he didn't have anything of the sort, but who keeps stuff like that for 7-8 years? Its also conceivably possible that steroid traces could be added later, I'm not sure if that could be dated or not but I don't think so.

    But then again, where is McNamee's motive in all this? That phone conversation a few weeks back was just more confusing - it was like both parties were speaking in riddles or something.
  16. DRHJ9 Force Ghost

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    It was reported that McNamee actually wanted to make up, so to speak, with Roger. But when Roger called him a lier, and denied that he took the HGH or roids, Mcnamee decided to act.

    I don't know who is teeling the truth, at this point. It doesn't look good for Roger though. I agree with some, that say he is lobbying hard.
  17. yankee8255 Chosen One

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    A classic story with no good guys, except maybe Pettitte. Admittedly hard to tell who is telling the truth between Clemens and McNamee, but there's one huge strike against Clemens: the substances with which he claims McNamee injected him would never be injected in the buttocks. McNamee certainly isn't the most honest man in the world, but Clemens really seems to be desperate.
  18. DarthIntegral Game Winner

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    Ironic, then, that he's the one who's admitted to taking PEDs then, no?
  19. yankee8255 Chosen One

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    Note my use of the word maybe.
  20. DarthIntegral Game Winner

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  21. DarthWormie Jedi Master

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    Clemens is a two-faced piece of ****. I hope he goes down in flames.
  22. Master_Kast7 Jedi Grand Master

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    You could back up that statement with words or you could just make it sound hateful and arrogant.

    Here's what I said on another site.

    What I don't understand is how a syringe(s) and bloody gauze pads will/would prove anything. He said McNamee injected B-12 in him. McNamee did not decline the statement. OMG look at that! Sounds like innocence. Now to prove he used HGH or steroids with the syringe(s) and bloody gauze pads well you can't really. Unless somehow McNamee is a ******* genius. Which obviously he's not.

    Why all of a sudden now this "Physical Evidence" comes to light...? McNamee had more than enough time to show proof of his allegations against Clemens. By swearing under oath and testifying he was obligated to surrender this so-called "Physical Evidence". Gimme a ******* break. McNamee and both his lawyers are morons all in the same, and they need to be held accountable for their actions. Like I said before this "Physical Evidence" doesn't prove anything given the circumstances.

    Now at this point in time I'd like to thank Jose Canseco for starting all this B* with that damn book he wrote and for continuing to talk thereafter. McNamee I think was influenced by Jose. And after a while of thinking decided to run with it. This thought of mine isn't any crazier than his either.

    Here's another crazy thought. If Clemens stays in Houston or just retirement would McNamee still have started all this? Because we all know McNamee started all this. He somehow got a crazy idea in his head. No one held a gun to his head. This was all him and him alone.

    The real piece of **** here is McNamee.
  23. yankee8255 Chosen One

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    Maybe the feds didn't use a gun, but the threat of a criminal conviction isn't far removed. Clemens was the one who decided to turn this into a mud-slinging affair, and once he taped that phone conversation, the gloves were sure to come off.

    I agree, though, that the materials McNamee handed over don't necessarily prove anything, as he could have tampered with them after the fact. Still, to do so he would have had to have Clemens blood stored all this time to add to the bottles.

    In the end, what's really going to kill Clemens is Pettitte's corroboration. Attacking McNamee's character is one thing, attacking Pettitte's is another.
  24. Master_Kast7 Jedi Grand Master

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    However, he showed them pictures of this **** first before he turned it over, and this was all wayyy after he testified to Mitchell. What the **** does a picture prove...? Not only that but as I mentioned before if he had all of this stuff, and the Fed's came to him and had him testify about all this steroid use, he had to surrender all knowledge and evidence regarding his testimony. Being that he didn't and they went based on his "word" with no proof, and then all of a sudden he comes out of his basement saying look look I have physical proof months after he testified is called "Obstruction Of Justice" my friends.
  25. DarthWormie Jedi Master

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    Jul 22, 2004
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    Anyone watching or listening to this right now?

    It looks like all of those autographs Roger signed last week up on the Capitol did him no good at all. He's going down a big old blaze right now.
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