ST "Mizzlewump" Rumor - Too Many Coincidences?

Benicio Del Toro was originally going to play Darth Maul in TPM, but left the role because Lucas trimmed all the dialogue and screen time. I think Gary Oldman was offered a new role in a new Star Wars again, but he got in trouble for some comments he made a few years ago - so he's not likely to be a Star Wars movie and he was originally set to voice General Grievous. I think if either of them were cast, it would've been as a Dark Sider of some sort.

 

I don't think we need more dark side users after Kylo, Snoke and the whole Knights of Ren. He looks like you just need to paint him blue and give him a white outfit and he's good to go

 

I don't want to get too far into semantics here, but the interviews of Kasdan and JJ confirm that there was no Arndt script--just a collection of notes. According to both of them, Arndt told them he would need 18 months to write it and they didn't have the time.
They stepped in and Kasden wanted to start from scratch but JJ liked some of the ideas and knew he wanted to keep them.
Notes and ideas for story beats is all Arndt had. The decision to drop the Lucas treatments was made before Abrams was ever brought aboard by Disney.

Just trying to clarify.

 

What comments did he make?

 

Guess in the world of Hollywood you have to be careful of what you say.


http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...eople-rant-playboy-magazine-article-1.1843040

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...gibson-alec-baldwin-in-new-interview-20140624

 

Snoke is NOT Ruin in the rumors. The rumors state that the new evil master was an older STUDENT of the emperor, and his apprentice uses the name Ruin (Ren), which was originally used by the original Sith Lord (as mentioned in the TPM novelization), and according to this leak was also an ancestor of Palpatine.

I guess JJ and Larry realized that the name Ruin was silly, and that trying to bring back the Sith would render the prophecy and the events of ROTJ as too pointless. So it looks like their solution was to come up with a new faction of evil entirely with a name that bared resemblance to Ruin but didn't sound as cliche.

That still begs these questions tho: is Ren still the name of an ancient evil being? Or is it now just the name of this new evil faction and nothing more? If it was still someone's name, was the original Ren still an ancestor of Palpatine's? Was he the one who pioneered the armor design used by Vader, the Knights of Ren, and clone wars-era Bane? Would this "real" Ren ever appear in the new trilogy, with Snoke just acting as a red herring? Or is Snoke really our new big bad?

Also, is Snoke still gonna be a former student of Palpatine? If so, what kind of student? Sure doesn't seem like he's a Sith.

Hopefully we get the answer to most of these questions in 4 days

 

Actually, no. According to Mizzlewump (or whatever it's spelled) rumours, it's this: >Loredump: In the script, the Sith are a couple thousand years old, founded by an ancestor of Palpatine called Ruin; the apprentice in this film also goes by that name

So Ruin would be an ancestor of Palpatine.

Yes, that makes sense.

Well, the bolded part is what this mizzlewump claims. But there's nobody named Ruin or Ren, so I'm assuming they changed the name. But it could be that there's still a bigger fish.

I haven't seen any credible rumours stating that. Do you have a source?

 

Aren't you the one who revisited these rumors recently? Go back and read your post from the other day. It says "the new main antagonists are an older student of The Emperor, and his apprentice." This implies to me that Snoke was the older student, and the apprentice is Kylo. In the "loredump" it says the apprentice used the name Ruin, as it was the name of the original Sith Lord who also happened to be an ancestor of The Emperor, but nowhere does it say that his master (aka the older student of The Emperor) also used that name. So I don't really see anything there to suggest that Snoke was once called Ruin too in these drafts, nor do I see any potential evidence for him to be Plageuis or anyone else that came before Palpatine for that matter since here he's clearly labeled as a "former student" of his (mind you, that couldve changed between drafts).

EDIT: it's possible that I may have misread your comments and/or you may have misread mine so I apologize in advance if that's the case

 

True, there's that part: The main antagonists are an older student of the Emperor, and his apprentice

And then Ruin/ Ren is someone else. I'm getting confused here. I revisited this thread cause it was brought up in another thread. Y

 

Btw out of sheer boredom and curiosity, I thought itd be fun to try to imagine the conversations JJ and Larry could've had that lead them from the name Ruin to the name Kylo Ren.

JJ: how are we gonna make this new story feel relevant to the old ones, now that Vader and the Emperor are dead?

Larry: well we can bring back whoever the original Sith Lord was. To try to make it feel full circle or something.

JJ: not a bad idea, but resurrections are kinda contrived. How about our new "field" villain is just named after the original Sith Lord?

Larry: sure.

(Later)

JJ: Pablo hildago says the original Sith Lord in the novelizations is called Ruin.

Larry: Hmm...sure, I guess we can work with that name for now.

(A few drafts later)

JJ: yeah this Ruin name isn't really working for me. It's too cliche.

Larry: I agree. We could just try to come up with a fictional word that sounds similar, so that way it'll feel more alien and less cliche.

JJ: good idea! How about...umm...Ren?

Larry: I like that! But it doesn't feel very "full" since it's only one syllable.

JJ: I'll double check that name with Pablo, then.

(Later again)

JJ: I asked Pablo about the name Ren and he said there was a character in the EU called Kybo Ren.

Larry: not a bad start...but I feel like the name Kybo doesn't really roll off the tongue. How about something that sounds smoother like...uhhh...Kylo?

JJ: Kylo Ren? I like it! But if this kid is supposed to be Han's son then how are we gonna explain why his last name is Ren? Since it's not really a title anymore.

Larry: we could just forget about the whole Sith thing and come up with our own new evil faction that makes you take on the last name Ren when you join it.

JJ: okay, cool.

(JJ said on the Howard Stern show that he talked to Pablo a lot during the writing process, so I could see something along the lines of the above hypothetical convos being what coulda happened there)

 

Also remember a lot of things such as names and even some plot/character elements could have been placeholders intended to be changed later down the line but used to expedite the writing process. This is a writing strategy. Given the time frame they needed to complete the script, I could see them using existing EU (Legends) names and coming up with generic backstories (Emperor's old student) just to hash the basic beats of the main action of the story out and onto the page, but intending to change backstory and names later on once a working story framework was in place. The impression of TFA's script development I get is that it was very fast paced and unfolding simultaneously with other aspects of production such as casting, concept art etc etc.

 

Yes, it makes sense.

Still, if names and details are discounted, these rumours match the MSW rumours, so they seem legit.
The one thing that's missing from Meizzlewump, though, is Kylo's parentage so that's something that could have been added later on. In Mizzlewump's "outline", the baddies seem pretty generic, and it makes sense that they were later further developed.

 

We should also take into account the fact that this leak features a few things that seem to be missing almost entirely from the MSW plot, with the biggest example of course being the whole "Luke saves the day in the end, but in a bad way...he's changed." Pairing this particular quote from the leak with that alleged concept art description of a crazy-looking Luke having his lightsaber drawn at Han and Kylo (assuming that was even real) suggests that at some point JJ and Larry thought about having Luke show up on Starkiller to defeat Kylo, but his years of seclusion made him a little unstable so he accidentally kills Han in the process. But since such a sequence wouldn't even fit at all in the MSW plot, I'm guessing JJ and Larry decided this felt too contrived and ended up having Kylo kill Han instead and downgraded Luke to just the flashback and a cameo at the very end where he isn't crazy.

But then now there's this whole thing of that dude from that box office forum whom everybody there claims to be legit saying luke is still all over act 3 and still accidentally kills han in the final film...he didn't seem too trustworthy in those spoiler responses tho so I guess he had heard of these early rumors too and based his fake spoilers off of that?....I don't know, but I'm excited to find all of this out in less than 4 days now. At this point in time tho Id rather luke only be a wordless cameo at the very end than him showing up for most of the third act acting like a lunatic and accidentally killing his best friend, not to mention most people's favorite character ever

 

I'm going to have a really tough time dealing with Han dying before he sees Luke again, but I'd gladly take no reunion over one between Han and an unhinged murderous hermit.

 

As someone who read the MW stuff early on but then tried really hard to avoid spoilers, I was kinda shocked when the opening crawl began to roll. Seemed almost like everything was going to be mostly true.

I still don't know if there was any credibility to this, but it's weird how many things kinda sorta panned out.