MS Update Mod Squad Update (06 June -> 13 June)

Because there are a few members here that actually fit into the category of Mentally challenged?

The update was meant as a theme, and I really think there was no malice intended, so if it is offensive, why not just take it out? It's not like there are tons of things posted everyday, that is offensive to some user, that doesn't get edited out.

 

We're all unique humans who react differently. I didn't see any malice, but others did. Fair enough too. As Boomer said, edit it out if needs be, and be done with it. Besides, shouldn't this entire objection have been kept to PM? Just a thought.

 

<----

 

I've gotten PMs containing links from people I don't know, but I never thought those were anything to report. None of the sites offended me, but they didn't interest me either.

That's the thing it didn't offended you, but spammers don't go pming one person and that's it. They pm multiple users.

 

With the spam PM thing, I think it depends on what the sender did: did he/she send the link to people he/she had good reason to believe would be interested? For example, after the Basher'S Sanctuary was shut down, most or all of the regulars there got a pm inviting us to go to ORS. Most of us did, though obviously not everyone. Is it an offense that there were some people who received the pm that weren't interested? I don't think it should be. As long as the sender sends it to a group that he reasonably believes will be interested, I think it should be perfectly OK. Obviously things are different if we're talking about porn sites and the like.

 

I don't think that it would be or, or at least that it should be, considered spam. In an instance like that, it's a group of people that are at least familiar with each other. Those PMs were sent out to make other users that posted in the Basher's Sanctuary, aware that there was an offshot for them to gather at, after the BS was closed down here.

I'd think the spam policy focuses more on people that signed up expressly to send multiple PMs to either advertise a site, or a product, without having even becoming part of the community.

 

What we're talking about, Boomer (ASG, right?), would be the usual legal standard for what is not spam. Spam would be where people are chosen without any attempt to limit the group of addressees based on some reasonable criteria.

 

There's no "legal definition" on a privately-held website. Well, I mean there is (there's a decent amount of case law), but it's mostly moot here.

Essentially, if you're a spamvertiser (which none of the people in this thread are and you will readily identify when they post), you will be banned and your posts deleted. If you actively attempt to deny this website (and thus, the business interest of the owners therein) traffic, you will possibly also be considered a spammer and subject to disciplinary action.

 

A good thing to remember if you want to "let others know" about a site is that if its in your sig, the choice is there and no one has received a PM that might be considered "unwanted", or "spam".

 

What I'm trying to get at is that the definition of a spam pm shouldn't be subjective based on the recipient. Any time one sends a pm, there's a chance a recipient might not be interested, regardless of the number of recipients. Just because the recipient says " I didn't want to get that", doesn't make it spam.

If the aministration here decides it wants to ban pm's telling users about other sites, that's your decision, but you'd certainly be confirming what alot of the critics of this site allege about the management.

 

If it's a PM sent out en masse to people you hardly know or don't know, there's a very, very, very large chance it's considered spam - at this site anyway. If you send a PM to your friends saying I found this new site, that's a bit different. If they say, leave me alone about it, then it's harassment if you send it again or go on about it. Two differences, but yes, we don't allow large PMing to people, certainly not to draw hits away from this site. That's just not good standard business practice and the thousands of users that post here would get pretty irritated at us. Much more than the few who want to draw some members to their site.

 

You could say that about almost everything that happens in Comms, but then, there's no point in having a ComMOONications forum if you take everything to PM. This is supposed to be a public place for discussion of policy. In my opinion, far too many matters have been privatized already, and we don't need Comms any more castrated than it's already become in recent years.

Show us where any person in a position of power has said they intend to ban the sending of all PMs with links to other sites, please.

 

We haven't said that at all. We're talking very specifically about, more often than not, brand new users who just signed up. Their username is sometimes the website they want you to go to, the product they want you to buy, eBay sale that's featured, etc... They go from forum to forum starting threads and posting the same exact thing about getting great deals on DVDs or anything else under the sun. Then, knowing their spamvertiser nature will get easily noticed, they typically head immediately to PM mode and send as many PM's en masse as they can to whomever is online at the moment. That is what we're talking about. This is mutually exclusive from your every day PM, even if it's you sending out the same PM to 10 of your friends. There is a very distinct difference. If you ever have any questions discerning the difference, just let us know. You're not going to get banned for sending PM's and we're not monitoring your PM's. Spamvertising PM's are so very different from everything else and stick out like a sore thumb. It also happens very rarely.

 

Question: how do they send the mass-pm's? I thought you can only send to one user at a time.

EDIT: And Sapient, what you're describing is clearly spam, no question. I think we were discussing where the line gets drawn. I was trying to suggest some kind of reasonable, objective standard, and felt Rhonda's was a bit too over-inclusive.

 

How is it different? A user doesn't have to be "new" to send out a spam PM inviting people to another site. Most times they are but inviting people that you "think would be interested" to another forum is spam by Sape's definition, also. Even though its done with a sock here lately. What are you basing your criteria on when you say people who might be interested? I just got a bunch of PMs from people being invited to another SW board that didn't feel they were people who this board should think "might be interested", and saw it as spam. It sounds like by your definition you think it would just be letting people you think would be interested in this board know about it. Spam emailers are going on the hope that you might be interested in winning this new iPod.

If it's someone you post alongside everyday and you know them or think they might be interested in a site, send it in your name. Don't send it under a sock. That right there is a good indicationthat its spam. When I get PMs from users and check a user id and its a sock of a) a banned user or b) a brand new user sending mass PMs, it's a 99.9% spam. The other .1% could be your gray area, I guess.

 

I just want to know that for such a black and white, clear-cut, long standing policy, I have no idea how all this grey area was created out of nowhere.

 

Did someone invite you to ORS?

 

No, but someone who is either a member here or used to be a member here signed up with a new sock and invited about 50 of their "closest friends" to ORS. Do YOU consider that spam?

 

Anyone from the administration willing to comment on their position on unsolicted spam emails asking for money ?

 

Depends. How were those 50 people chosen? Randomly, or people who are known to have their differences with the administration here? The former is spam, thae latter isn't, IMO.

Look, if you want to have a blanket ban on advertising competing websites, fine. It's ntirely reasonable not to want to have your own services used against you. But come out and say that.

EDIT: admittedly, though, 50 is a pretty high number that would lead me to guess that in most cases it's spam, though cases like the BS closing, or the problems with the Sidious-Mace debate, would be exceptional cases.

 

We don't have a blanket ban on advertising websites. Check out any Sarcasm Knight's sig. You can absolutely put a place that's dear to your heart in your sig for EVERYONE to see, not just those that you think would be interested.

 

I said competing (ORS, Original Trilogy, etc.). Which is different than spam generally.

How's this for an attempt at a bright line rule: Pm to 10 or less is generally OK, unless it's clearly straight advertising. More than 10, burden of proof switches to the offending user to show that he or she legitimately picked the addressees.

And has anyone figured out my profession yet?(ASO, you're not allowed to answer!)

 

Actually dp4m said the part about competing websites way up there. I don't think putting a limit on the amount of PMs someone can send would be a good thing. Unsolicited PMs asking people to go read their fic, go to their website, vote for them on a website, etc. is still that. Unsolicited.

 

Do the mods here care if people leave TFN for good?

Also, just because someone who is a registered user of TFN registers and posts at another Star Wars site, that does not necessarily mean that the person will never post at TFN again. I myself am a member of and post at two other Stars Wars sites.

 

Do the mods here care if people leave TFN for good?


If you're not a particularly respected member, and/or someone with a good deal of potential to become such a member, not really.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing some folks hit the e-road.