Mod Squad update covering January 6 through January 26th

mmm... i also think that having a master would make you feel more welcome.... for those of you who are, or have been, a part of the Dark/Light siders of the JC, you know that you can join up on one of those without knowing anyone, and immediatly feel welcome simply because of your master.

That's true -- but on the flip side, how many Mods do you think aren't familiar with their chosen Forum Mods when chosen to BE a Mod?

I'd wager not very many.

But listen -- I'm not sold on either argument. Yes, I've changed my position for thinking they're definitely a good idea to thinking they may or may not be a good idea. So I'll let others get back in on the debate now.

 

mmm... i also think that having a master would make you feel more welcome....

that's why we have welcome threads in the modsquad, the gently get them acquianted to the insanity.

but it would encourage more friendship and unity between the mods, and help the newbie mod settle in more quickly.

speaking for myself here, I put my two cents into pretty much every promotion that goes on. I vote. We go through the entire process and the person who gets promoted has my backing *immediatly*. We put enough trust into someone by giving them the ban button. I haven't seen descrmination going on against newbie mods, mostly the newbie understands that s/he's new and tries to learn the ropes. We don't promote complete fools, and people who've stayed on long enough and gotten enough recognization to be promoted a mod usually know the way things work.


So, I'm against master/apprentice system. Any mod that's promoted is equal and on par with every other mod, if only less experienced. Setting up a caste system will faction it. There are threads for newbie mods in the mod squad and the newbies are free to PM any of us for help.

 

TheBoogieMan, what's your stake in this? Why are you pushing the issue? If moderators don't really think that it's a really important issue, and it only affects moderators, then why waste your breath (er, fingers)?

 

Does anyone else see the inherent contradiction between saying a newly made mod is equal to or just as knowledgable in what a mod needs to do and how to do it as every other mod and that regular members can't, don't know the hard work and stuff a mod has to deal with?

When I was made a mod I don't remember any knowledge fairy tapping me on the head with their wand.

And Liz, if you honestly think that a new mods is held in equal esteem as a moderator who has been serving longer, you're fooling yourself.

I don't care if you only hire Mensa members and rocket scientists, they still have to learn how to do what they want to do with their powers, and there is more to that then which button does what.

 

When I was made a mod I don't remember any knowledge fairy tapping me on the head with their wand.

Right -- but the questions still remains, do you generally expect the people chosen to be Mods to be capable enough to ask the questions of the people they need to ask them in order to do their job properly?

 

Asking the neccesary questions isn't just a matter of being able to become a mod, it's a question of individual temperment. The mods aren't all pressed from a cookie cutter are they?

Besides, the first guide on moderating is something I wrote. Me, myself, just a little while before I stepped down. Before then they didn't even have a guide on what buttons do what.

Were the agaisnt the idea? No, just no one had thought of it, or thought it wasn't important enough to actually do.
Now however we have a different situation.
I have and had several friends who when they became mdos I offered to answer any questions they might stumble across. The fact they 'resortted' to an ex-mod to answer their questions is probably more because of the underlying friendship then mistrust of the other mods, however any mod who is wants to have some guide should have a system in place for them.
When I told someone that I wouldn't have done something a particular way or explained to them why something was a certain way, I wasn't looking down on them, I was teaching them.
No new mod should have to go through it by themselves and learn through 'experience' what another mod already knows. Experience is a son of a bitch, it gives you the test before the lesson.

If a mod is willing to be taught instead of groping blindly to find methods other mods have already learned, why can't the older mods offer their experience instead of expecting new mods to do all the work?

 

Ummmm... you do realize this is a bad idea, right?

Ummmm... you do realize that was a joke, right?

 

I'd like to add something else people haven't considered, the membership is not the only source of mods.

I think a staff mod who had much less experience with the forums would benefit proportionally more from some sort of introductory process.

 

I also had no real guidance when I came on board. In fact, I felt I received a very cold reception from the ModSquad as a whole. It felt like many wanted the Senate and me to fail from the get-go, especially with the threat of Senate closure after three months if "they" weren't satisfied.

Anyway. I think there are some good mods that will help parent and guide the newbie mods. However, I do not think a system is in order. The way I see it, forum leaders are responsible for that (when KnightWriter came into the Senate, I stayed for several weeks in case he had questions and for guidance). If the JCC gets a new mod, the old mods better be sending him/her PMs saying they are available anytime, same thing with former mods who have advice. DarthAttorney should be in close communication with Protoge-of-Thrawn to see if he needs guidance because it is a passing of the torch situation.

But a "master/padawan" type system? It is unnatural; it forces a structure where there doesn't need to be one.

 

Wonderful Update YodaJeff A well needed one to

 

That's true -- but on the flip side, how many Mods do you think aren't familiar with their chosen Forum Mods when chosen to BE a Mod?

Yeah, i wasn't talking about that. that's just plain stupid

I was talking about being welcome in the mod squad.

that's why we have welcome threads in the modsquad, the gently get them acquianted to the insanity.

Yeah, i know. But there are welcome threads in 'Welcome New Users' and all the Dark/Light Siders.

As you should very well know, this does not equal a set-in-concrete new friendship. A master, however, does.
A welcome of "Hi, welcome to the JC/DarkSide/LightSide/ModSquad feel free to PM me about anything." doesn't nessesarily make a newbie feel any more at home. I would be interested to see what ObiAnne or Jedi Mind Trick thinks of this matter, as they used to run the Dark Side/Light Side, and are now mods.

I haven't seen descrmination going on against newbie mods, mostly the newbie understands that s/he's new and tries to learn the ropes. We don't promote complete fools, and people who've stayed on long enough and gotten enough recognization to be promoted a mod usually know the way things work.

I didn't say there was discrimination. I've never been to Mod Squad, so i don't know. I am just saying that a master would help the newbie learn the ropes quicker. The newbie can just send their master a PM, rather than chosing a mod who may or may not be able to answer that question. The master, if not able to answer the question can just say: "Well, User D can answer that, I'll ask him for you"

Look, all I am proposing is a system that you mostly already seem to have in place. The only reason i feel it should be formalised is because you may get a newbie mod who has done great things and has been promoted. However, in his forum, their hasn't been an active mod for ages, and thus doesn't know any. In his 'welcome' thread he gets many invitations of PM's, but doesn't know anyone well enough that he feels he can PM, and is too embarresed to post a topic on it. The mod then will have to figure it out by himself. What if he stuff's it up? i mean, sure, ban's can be taken off the record, but public opinion cannot.
The user suffering from the newbie mod's mistake, and his group of friends will dislike that mod for quite a long time now, and possibly there will be some mods that will think, "jeez, why did we promote him?"

TheBoogieMan, what's your stake in this? Why are you pushing the issue? If moderators don't really think that it's a really important issue, and it only affects moderators, then why waste your breath (er, fingers)?

It doesn't just affect mods. If a newbie mod makes an honest mistake, it can still affect them, and regular users. I just want to see the JC prepare for once rather than be reactionary.
I have never been to Mod Squad (obviously) but some people (who will remain nameless ) have told me of the dis-unity that is often apparent. I can also make several assumptions by the amount of disgruntled mod's over the years, and by the fact that being part of the JC, in all likelyhood, the Mod Squad will be like the JC.

I don't care if you only hire Mensa members and rocket scientists, they still have to learn how to do what they want to do with their powers, and there is more to that then which button does what.

Exactly. We have to get past the idea that Mod's, once promoted, become endowered with knowledge of how to treat sticky issues. We also have to get past the idea that the 'sink or swim' method will create good mods. Sure, one or two might be better for it, but there are a whole lot of mods that will make bad mistakes in the first few weeks, and then maybe have a completely warped idea of what being a mod means.

When I told someone that I wouldn't have done something a particular way or explained to them why something was a certain way, I wasn't looking down on them, I was teaching them.

Yes. A padawan system is not belittling newbie mods, simply teaching them. Have you ever adopte

 

In his 'welcome' thread he gets many invitations of PM's, but doesn't know anyone well enough that he feels he can PM, and is too embarresed to post a topic on it. The mod then will have to figure it out by himself. What if he stuff's it up? i mean, sure, ban's can be taken off the record, but public opinion cannot.

I don't think that's ever the case. I'm pretty sure that if new moderators have questions, they do ask. I know I asked when I was promoted, and I've given out my own answers to questions since that time.

Sure, one or two might be better for it, but there are a whole lot of mods that will make bad mistakes in the first few weeks, and then maybe have a completely warped idea of what being a mod means.


I can't say I've ever really seen an actual example of this in the time I've been a moderator.

Why doesn't there need to be one? If a newbie is not going to ask questions of his peers, there should be one. And if his peers are going to cold shoulder him, there should be one.


I simply don't like formalizing something that should be informal. It's too controlling and concrete for me. I prefer something along the lines of what Lord Bane did. I knew there were moderators I could ask questions of, and I asked them.

I don't think there would be any harm done. I just don't think it's necessary, so long as new moderators understand that they are able to ask questions at any time. It would certainly be nice to have a general guide to moderating (beyond farraday's existing work), however.

 

Ok then. I have explored all possible reasons, and if you guys still don't want it, then i guess i am wasting my time (like Jon Snow said)

But, yes, i do think that there should be some sort of guidlines, and maybe a thread where newbie mods can ask basic questions of oldbies.

 

But, yes, i do think that there should be some sort of guidlines, and maybe a thread where newbie mods can ask basic questions of oldbies.

It exists and I've used it.

 

Any thread in the ModSquad can be a Q&A one for newbie mods. When a new situation arises, they are never hindered in asking questions about the history of a problem or a user, nor are they kept out of the loop on the decision making process.

You are chosen to be a moderator because those that vote you in think you have the ability to learn on your feet and from experience. In one week, you know all there is to know about the technical aspect of modding. It takes a while longer to learn the subjective angles, like people skills. Some people never learn them, as we have seen in the past.

 

what exists?

i thought other mods said things like that didn't exist. at least, not in depth.

 

It isn't just newbie moderators that ask questions. Any veteran moderator worth his salt gets a second opinion before implementing a new policy. Of the first 50 threads in the Mod Squad, at least 11 of them by my quick count are moderators looking for advice. 8 serve a similar purpose in the Advisory Council. These are straight out ?I have a problem, here?s what I did to put a bandage on it, what is everyone?s opinion on the matter? sort of topics, purely in search of advice.

When it comes to PM?s, in my personal experience, KnightWriter and Kadue have been great sounding boards for ideas. But I wouldn?t hesitate to PM any moderator to ask them a question that I thought that they might be able to answer.

I don?t think that there?s any need for any sort of formal system. I know I personally would have chaffed under such a system. Newbie moderators should know that the collective wisdom (or lack thereof ) of the Mod Squad is at their disposal, and all they have to do is ask. And if they do screw up, someone will notice, and can step in to deal with it.

 

i thought other mods said things like that didn't exist. at least, not in depth.

No, there are threads in there dedicated to conduct ont he boards, what the buttons mean, all those fun things. And then add in, you have every mod squad thread ever in there. When I became a mod, one of the first things I did was just page through the old threads, reading them. It answers a lot of questions, and you get a good feel for the mod personalities and how things run in the forum. There are a lot of helpful things int he mod sqaud that don't even involve the other mods. Add in, I don't think in my time I ever saw anyone turn down a request for help, or refuse to answer a questions. Every mod gets a welcome thread, and in each one, I've seen most mods who need it for questions utilize it.

I just think that right now, there is a pretty good informal system set up. Every mod who comes in, has at least a couple people who know him from when they were a regular user, or else they probably wouldn't have been nominated. I don't think I've ever seen anyone who came in and didn't at least know a couple of mods.

 

I didn't have a problem getting down and dirty in the Mod Squad. Wait, that didn't sound right...

Anyways, there are plenty of mods willing to help out. If I've ever been in a situation that I wasn't sure what to do, I PM'd another moderator, or posted a thread in the MS. Maybe it was just me, but I knew how to deal with most situations, just because I was familiar with how the boards worked, and I had seen how various moderators took control of various situations before.

I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad idea, but I don't think it would have helped me out too much.

 

i think that if theres one thing that this debate has shown is that regular users need to, and would certainly like to know more about how the mod squad works.

 

Sometimes when a mod is raised it is specifically because the forum they're targetted for has no leadership.

I had no JCC mod I respected to ask opinions of topics.

Furthermore, older mods may each learn something from a pooling of their knowledge.

 

What would you like to know?

 

i believe that one of the major reasons as to why there is conflict between regular users and mods is because we see 'the mod squad' as a kind of far off land, something people would label on a map as "here be dragons".

It would help, i think if apart from regular mod squad updates, we got to see you as regular users, with slightly more responsibility.

Many mods, once gaining their colours, hardly hang out where they used to. I realise this is usually because of time constraints, but it gives a lot of users the feeling of being snobbed.

I think you should try and make the the user see the mod squad as just another board. I mean, i don't even know if you guys have sticky topics!

Maybe you could start releasing more information in Mod Squad Updates about the general stuff that goes on there..... try and human-ify yourselves a bit

btw, i have to go to a band rehearsal now, so don't expect responses....

 

"Many mods, once gaining their colours, hardly hang out where they used to. I realise this is usually because of time constraints, but it gives a lot of users the feeling of being snobbed."

I can't speak for everyone else, but I try to hang out everywhere that I did prior to becoming a moderator. Whether it's chatting with JCers on AIM, or hanging out in community every once and a while, I try to be the same member that I was before.

"I think you should try and make the the user see the mod squad as just another board. I mean, i don't even know if you guys have sticky topics!"

There aren't any sticky threads in the MS. That's not to say that there couldn't be, it's just saying that there aren't any.

 

As YJ said, I also try to do what I did before I became a moderator. I post in pretty much the same places now, with about the same number of posts.

I think the sticky thread mention was somewhat beside the point. From what I'm understanding, he's saying that most people know nothing of what goes on in the MS (whether that's true or not), and don't know what kind of discussion takes place.