Mod Squad update covering October 30 through November 5 2003

wat Herman said. there should be a FG to discuss mods and admins. if the mods can pick and choose what to discuss, then the concept loses all merit.

 

wat Herman said. there should be a FG to discuss mods and admins. if the mods can pick and choose what to discuss, then the concept loses all merit.

I have no objections to such a group, but before we have one we would need to put in place some safeguards to keep it from being abuse.

From my own personal experience, I know that there are some users who set up their own views on a specific mod and refuse to believe anything else. I've had one user think that I was out to get him simply because I edited one of his posts. I've had another get upset at me because I told both him and another user to back off on personal commentary.

A very real concern is that some people would try to use such a focus group simply to attack those members of the administration that they have some sort of grudge with. Legitimate complaints do need to be addressed, but the focus groups should not become a vehicle to simply attack people over personal disagreements.

Kimball Kinnison

 

i agree.

not sure about what safeguards you could establish though. i guess it would come down to the people involved.

 

For what it's worth, these are some of my reasons for not wanting to merge the TPM and AOTC forums yet (and yes, I mod them both):

There are still distinct conversations that are going on. While traffic has gone down, it hasn't stopped.

The environments in the PT forums are very different (witness the current discussion in Comms about 3SA), and would, IMHO, create a lot of new conflicts I'd like to avoid for the moment.

These movies aren't "complete" yet - witness the new/deleted/changed scenes in the DVDs. Ostensibly they are meant to hang together as a unified trilogy, with one film merging with and changing because of another. Until we're at the "final" stage (i.e., post Ep. III stage), I think it makes sense to leave them separate.

 

That's the problem that we have.

Some (not all) of the people who would call for a focus group would be those who have a personal grudge. In order to keep the focus group from being abused, we would have to try to identify such people and keep them out of it.

However, if it were formed, they are also the most likely people to complain loudly that they are kept out (and then accuse the administration of ignoring them or trying to cover things up.

One option would be to carefully moderate the focus group, warning people to keep it constructive. At that point, you remove anyone who tries to twist it for a personal grudge. However, that just leads to even more fuel for potential "drama".

Without adequate safeguards, all such a focus group would lead to is trouble for everyone.

Kimball Kinnison

 

One option would be to carefully moderate the focus group, warning people to keep it constructive. At that point, you remove anyone who tries to twist it for a personal grudge. However, that just leads to even more fuel for potential "drama".

yeah, i don't think mods should be interfering with the way the FG is run... i mean, it kinda negates the whole point of the thing if people are being told what to say (or what not to say).

 

You're wrong Quix, just plainly and blatently wrong and it is my fondest hope you are still a mod in three or fours years so you can recieve the fruits of your arguement.

It's quite plain that the mods refuse to discuss this don't want it being discussed and don't care what anyone else might have to say.

So yeah I hope you get what evey short sighted person who leaves their messes for others to clean up deserves.

 

farraday, let me ask you one question. If we don't merge them now, what is the worst that happens?

Contrast that with what is the worst that would happen if we do merge them?

yeah, i don't think mods should be interfering with the way the FG is run... i mean, it kinda negates the whole point of the thing if people are being told what to say (or what not to say).

At the same time, being in a FG is not an excuse to be able to violate the TOS. If a user is flaming another user in the FG, then they need to be dealt with (possibly banned) and at the very least removed from the group. Remember that the purpose of a FG is to be constructive, not to let people unleash pent up anger or frustration.

It is a delicate balance that needs to be maintained. It's not as easy as simply throwing together a FG to discuss a topic.

Kimball Kinnison

 

KK the mods didn't decide to delay a decision to allow more discussion nor they didn't start an FG to get more views.

They went ahead and decided that the forums would not be combined until after Episode three had been released and died down.

As for the worst that could happen, yes I suppose it would be a crying shame if the mods decided to do what was difficult rather then what was easy.

You may be conservative KK, but how much of a crazed reactionary do you have to be to make a decision solely based on the worst that could possibly happen.

Since the mods all seem to agree combining the forums is a good idea, the half-hearted half-thought out reasons why it must wait until they've retired are quite beyond reasonability.

 

Since the mods all seem to agree combining the forums is a good idea, the half-hearted half-thought out reasons why it must wait until they've retired are quite beyond reasonability.

You are being quite selective in reading things here. You say that the mods support merging them (which is a half truth), but you neglect the fact that the vast majority do not believe that it needs to happen now. In the MS thread, I believe that there were only two people who wanted to merge them now, and neither was a mod from those forums.

Since there is such an overwhelming desire among the modsquad to wait, it was decided that there was no need for a focus group at this time. If the gnereal feeling in the MS changes in the future, then that may change. Until then, it's not going to.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Since there are a grand total of four mods for those two forums, I dare say many of the mods against it weren't mods for those two forums either, including yourself. So does merely agreeing with the mob make your opinions relevant?

The mods agree the forums should be merged, what they have not done is provide any meaningful arguement as to why it should wait until they've almost certainly retired.
Unless of course they question their ability to get it done. Which might explain the talk of the worst case scenario.

And it is so nice to know that the mods don't feel the need to empanel any focus group that might question their decision. It nicely removes any chance anyone might think they were worthwhile.

This gives me very little hope the mods will make the FG to discuss mod nominating procedure, but then again just maybe they'll realize that not only is it theoretically possible for them to be wrong but it actually occurs.

 

farraday...
"And it is so nice to know that the mods don't feel the need to empanel any focus group that might question their decision. It nicely removes any chance anyone might think they were worthwhile."

This was a task which the Advisory Council was very much involved in. It was AC2 that put the groundwork in place for moderator evaluations, and IIRC performed some.

Now, whether it was a testament to the quality of the Advisory Council, but in all honesty, they seemed to work well. At the time, there was much interest on the ModSquad side of things to take part in such a "regular user review" of their performance.

Unfortunately, the focus groups are not the Advisory Council, and while the AC was very much well-suited to do such things, I'm not quite so sure the new focus group structure is as good for it.

In the end, it seems to me the best way to get feedback on one's performance as a forum mod is to discuss it amongst users of one's forum and amongst managers and administrators of this site who may be more experienced.

 

In the end, it seems to me the best way to get feedback on one's performance as a forum mod is to discuss it amongst users of one's forum and amongst managers and administrators of this site who may be more experienced.


Umm, I truly don't mean to sound like a smart-ass, but isn't that the description of a focus group?


As I mentioned earlier, I admit that the potential for abuse is there. At worst a focus group system could be a way that a group of users decides to harass a mod until he/she just gets fed up and quits. In addition, it could be a method to argue personality conflicts rather than legitimate grievances about the enforcement of the rules.

Then again, by allowing a system for users to lodge their complaints (hopefully legitimate) to the modsquad as a whole rather than just the head admin. It's possible that behavior that might have been brushed off as one or two isolated incidents could be revealed to be a regular pattern that deserves further investigation. Even better, by allowing focus groups to deal with complaints against mods, the modsquad as a whole would demonstrate a level of trust in the views and opinions of the "regular" users.

Now personally, I have faith that if focus groups about mods are allowed that the system won't be abused by petty bickerings, especially if there is some level of criteria that must be met before a group can be formed (though I'm cynical enough that I wouldn't be surprised if it was ). IMO this would only be a last resort if members of a forum feel that their complaints have fallen of deaf ears.

 

Herman...
"Umm, I truly don't mean to sound like a smart-ass, but isn't that the description of a focus group?"

I suppose "not really," since, the description of the Focus Group never intended them to be some sort of collective substitute for a forum, administrators or more experienced managers.

 

A very real concern is that some people would try to use such a focus group simply to attack those members of the administration that they have some sort of grudge with. KK

Kimball,
Would you agree with me that there is the same, if not more, potential for the mods to benefit from people around the forms that they are friends with? It seems that these extreme groups would even each other out. I would say that the mods now have a larger fan club than doubters.

By the way your story about the guy who thinks you are out to get him is hilarious

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then, farraday, as I'm not here to convince you, but merely to say why I feel we can hold off. I can still sleep at night knowing that the forums are separate, and I have no qualms visiting different boards to discuss the films.

 

There are a couple of Focus Groups in the works, and the Literature one recently concluded, I believe.

It did? Nobody told us about it, we just stopped posting cause it was getting boring

 

Give it a rest, DA..

KnightWriter... you're my hero.

 

It did? Nobody told us about it, we just stopped posting cause it was getting boring .

I was as surprised as you were and it was getting boring. Perhaps it ended because you all stopped posting?

As for the merging, I just think that the PT is too new for them to share one forum. TPM is less than five years old, and is AOTC less than two. To me, if a trilogy is going to be released within a seven year time frame (on the scale that SW is), then the forums need to be seperate for a while so they can die down.

**Prepares for the firing squad**

 

I disagree...


Circle gets the square!!!

 

I hope my crushing your pitiful arguements hasn't made you abandon the updates

 

No, but now we need to triple check them, and remove anything slightly controvercial prior to posting them - hense the delays.



So, fear not, the opportunity for your weekly dose of mod-bashing will be presenting itself shortly.

 

The update will be ready tomorrow morning.

 

It had better be, or else....

 

//shakes fist

"Shake harder, son!"