Mod Squad Update for 11/05 -> 11/12...

I don't necessarily think the same level of respect HAS to be afforded to everyone, both registered and non-registered users.

Call me a Lucas slappy if you will....but I think an exception should be made in his case and his case only.

Oh, and George Lucas *is* a registered user here. See?

 

royalguard96...
"I mean it shouldn't matter that if it weren't for Lucas, TFN wouldn't exist....right?"

Well, it's not necessarily no. I suppose there's the theoretical chance, however small it may be, that Scott and Josh would just out of the blue up and make a web site devoted to a non-existent mythological space opera called "Star Wars."

 

Because we are here to protect the registered users of this site from violations of the TOS.

 

[Dead Horse]Any way we could get a reconsidering of the slash ban considering that a state in the union's finally come out of the Dark Ages?

Is there going to be a need for me to buy the last few books in the NJO and scour them for the ever-elusive Gay Ref?

Can we just accept Fen and Ghista already? [/Dead Horse]

 

Well, it's not necessarily no. I suppose there's the theoretical chance, however small it may be, that Scott and Josh would just out of the blue up and make a web site devoted to a non-existent mythological space opera called "Star Wars."

Sounds like the magic-bullet defense there, Genghis.

Theoretically, an elephant can hang from a cliff with his tail tied to a daisy. However, a little common sense goes a long way.

TFN wouldn't exist were it not for Lucas. I feel comfortable stating this as fact.

 

You stated it as a question, which is why I answered it for you.

 

'twas a rhetorical question

 

"Well Anakin is alive and then dead, but don't worry it's a different one."

Thanks..I'd not gotten that far yet.

(Though I fully expected it to happen, a la EU )

" I have often argued strongly for the equal protection of ALL people here -- registered or unregistered -- but am usually roundly shouted down by many, many people."

Think what would happen to you if you were not registered here!?!

"TFN wouldn't exist were it not for Lucas. I feel comfortable stating this as fact."

As inconsequential as it may be....

 

"DarthSapient will be filling this position, dealing primarily with the Communications forum, and providing Administrative support and feedback on all issues presented here. He will handle most Administrative announcements from here on out."

That's the role, yes.
You haven't been filling that role KW. Great that you want to start fulfilling your role now but you can't be an admin without a forum to moderate. This forum is for the PR Admin to moderate in addition to your other forum. You can't be an admin without a forum to mod.

"Neither Gandolf or G-S are official Communications moderators, and are not synonymous with the position of Communications administrator."

So take them out of the header bar.
Gandolf can do that in a week or so, right?

"I am the official Communications administrator, and have been since the end of April."

So why the change now?
Why didn't you drop the Senate when you were promoted to admin?
Because admin duties are supplementary to normal moderating ones. Gandolf, Sape and G-Sac are all admins and run specific forums. What's your story, why the exception for you KW? ?

"Wasn't NathanDahlin previously a PR Admin? And when he was, he was no longer the dedicated mod of the TPM Forum for which he was initially promoted. And then there's Carter who was a Comms Admin, yet almost never posted outside Comms or the Mod Squad."

Dahlin still handled TPM before the introduction of the Head Admin concept. Carter was site staff and outside normal JC hierarchy. You know that AmazingB.

"Precisely my reaction to all of your posts in this thread, DA."

Thanks for the flame, KW is obviously earning is pay cheque already!
Now smile for the camera Jeff, I can't post your pic but this should cover it:

"Just cause it may not have happened before, DA, (Though you're wrong: It did), doesn't mean it can't happen now, or there is anything wrong with it."

You're right but what's being gained from it?
Another mod will be promoted for The Senate uneccessarily (sp?) and KW will have a full admin role without needing to moderate a normal forum.....like everyone else. A double standard is created that further divides the perception of admins from mods from users.

"1. Nearly every one of your Communications posts will attack Knightwriter in an explicit or implicit manner."

Not true, apparently I attack you and YodaJeff all the time, UK_Sullustan

"2. 87.2%* of your Posts will mention "baiting" whenever someone makes a valid point about your case."

That's baiting and you know it.

"3. You will tell me to "grow up" when I make these two perfectly valid points."

That would be a flame and I don't flame.
[Reverend Lovejoy] And we appreciate the kisses [/Reverend Lovejoy]

"I never had a dedicated forum when I was admin/ manager."

Once again, before the concept of the Head Admin was introduced DL.

"do you have a specific axe to grind or are you just sharpening them all?"

Make Ender the replacement mod for the Senate before he has an aneurysm, quick!!?!

"However, primary moderating and authority here belongs first to me and then to Sapient."

So take the other guys out of the header bar, put it back to the way it used to be with the Head Admin and PR Admin up there.

 

I have often argued strongly for the equal protection of ALL people here -- registered or unregistered -- but am usually roundly shouted down by many, many people.

The question this makes me ask is why we would enforce that. We protect people who are registered here because most people don't enjoy posting in an environment where there are flames coming at them from all sides. People who aren't registered here, on the other hand, aren't likely to care what's said about them.

I guess I'm not a fan of rules for rules' sake.

 

"do you have a specific axe to grind or are you just sharpening them all?"

Make Ender the replacement mod for the Senate before he has an aneurysm, quick!!?!

Hey, I'm just making an observation, but you can always be counted on to be in a mod squad thread complaining about every little thing that's said.

If you hate the way the Boards are run, why do you still post here? Start your own boards and do things as you see fit.

And yes, consistent with UK_Sullustan's apt observation, I've noticed you'll call any criticism or the like a flame, despite anything resembling a flame in the content of the "offending remark". See: "Thanks for the flame, KW..."

E_S

 

"If you hate the way the Boards are run, why do you still post here? Start your own boards and do things as you see fit. "

No offense, but this is always the response of someone who cannot debate a person on the merit of the argument.
If you really want to debate DA, then do so on his thoughts in his post. It's a little cheeky to tell someone to take off because they are expressing there concerns on the way a website is run in a form devoted to just that purpose.

 

The question this makes me ask is why we would enforce that. We protect people who are registered here because most people don't enjoy posting in an environment where there are flames coming at them from all sides. People who aren't registered here, on the other hand, aren't likely to care what's said about them.

Because people will bash Bush, or bash Lucas, or bash Nat, or Hayden, or O'Reilly, or Clinton, etc.

And usually it'll piss people off. And then it typically degenerates into unrepentant baiting and flaming...

I'm all for a good Hillary bashing, but if it gets rid of all of the other bashing of celebs and pols I'm okay with not doing it...

 

You're right but what's being gained from it?
Another mod will be promoted for The Senate uneccessarily (sp?) and KW will have a full admin role without needing to moderate a normal forum.....like everyone else. A double standard is created that further divides the perception of admins from mods from users.

Actually, there has been no discussion of adding a new Senate moderator. Part of the reason I was brought in was because KW's focus had started to shift away from the Senate. As of right now, there is no need for a new moderator there.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Dahlin still handled TPM before the introduction of the Head Admin concept.

When Nathan was made head JC admin, cbjedi replaced him as TPM mod (see here).

Carter was site staff and outside normal JC hierarchy.

Not according to this thread. And you know (or should know) full well that Carter acted as a JC Admin just as much as any of the others.

Once again, Knight isn't the first admin without a dedicated forum. He just happens to be the only one right now.

Thanks for the flame, KW is obviously earning is pay cheque already!

Ah, so when you roll your eyes at someone else's post it's perfectly acceptable, but when someone else says the same in relation to one of yours it suddenly becomes a flame. What was that about double standards?

Amazing.

 

When DA said it, it was in response to an obvious joke.

 

Because people will bash Bush, or bash Lucas, or bash Nat, or Hayden, or O'Reilly, or Clinton, etc.

And usually it'll piss people off. And then it typically degenerates into unrepentant baiting and flaming...

Good reasons, and I'll add another: Are we here to encourage intelligent, meaningful discussion or are we here to have a hate-fest?

 

No offense, but this is always the response of someone who cannot debate a person on the merit of the argument.
If you really want to debate DA, then do so on his thoughts in his post. It's a little cheeky to tell someone to take off because they are expressing there concerns on the way a website is run in a form devoted to just that purpose.

It's "their". There's there, they're and their, and almost no-one can use them properly...

And if you think I can't debate you don't know me so you shouldn't try and make asinine remarks like that. If you visit any ModSquad update for, say, the past 6 months, you'll find DarthAttorney in each and every one complaining about something in each update. So, either he has;

a) Too much time, not enough interests,
b) A severe dislike of the administration due to a percieved abuse of power, or
c) An axe to grind with specific moderators and issues.

Given that "a" can't be substantiated online, that leaves us "b" and "c".

"B" implies that on a surface level the moderators are all power mad dictators (thank you Dark Horse...) and that DarthAttorney is our only hope. Alternatively, his attention to the Updates belies a dislike of key indiviudals. He can't resolve the situation in his favour; hence his presence on Comms. So maybe he'd be happier elsewhere?

E_S

 

"you can always be counted on to be in a mod squad thread complaining about every little thing that's said. "

Rubbish. I always limit myself to 2 or 3 things that are glaringly stupid in an update. I never target "every little thing". And the upshot is simple: if these updates are posted for people for sit around and pat each other on the back and comment on what a wonderful, hard working team of mods we have and jockey for the next mod position then too freaking bad. If there's something I don't agree with, you'll know about in the place I'm allowed to discuss it.

"Ah, so when you roll your eyes at someone else's post it's perfectly acceptable, but when someone else says the same in relation to one of yours it suddenly becomes a flame."

Good point, do you think both instances should be moderated AmazingB? I do but things like that never are, even after I've sent PM's to ask the mysterious dedicated Communications administrator to remove the hostility. Apparently it's "negative commentary" so it's allowed. Who runs this forum again?.

"And you know (or should know) full well that Carter acted as a JC Admin just as much as any of the others. "

And we both know he wasn't allowed to on any of the occasions he did.
Don't we?
And Dahlin in Comms/TPM happened before the Supreme Chancellor deal came in, just like the other floating mods (all of whom were removed or given a forum to moderate) which brings us to the current climate where admins have a dedicated forum and their admin duties are an addendum to their normal job.

No mod job = no admin.

"And if you think I can't debate you don't know me so you shouldn't try and make asinine remarks like that."

I guess that one stung near the European Journal of International Law where it hurts, huh? So try making an on-topic post sometime Ender. I wasn't mentioned in the MS Update why are you discussing me ad nauseum?
Raise a point you disagree or agree with (aside from you obligatory "Congratulations KW, please promote me, I hate DA as much as you do" ) and make a contribution to the thread instead of giving me the ample e-publicity I love.

 

And Dahlin in Comms/TPM happened before the Supreme Chancellor deal came in, just like the other floating mods (all of whom were removed or given a forum to moderate) which brings us to the current climate where admins have a dedicated forum and their admin duties are an addendum to their normal job.

No mod job = no admin.

Then just accept that things may have changed from how you perceived them. While that may have been the case while you were part of the administration (although it is just as likely that you are mistaken about it), it is not the case now. Those actions had approval from the MS in general through common consent. Everything is on the up and up.

Kimball Kinnison

 

OK, so G-Sac is cool to drop 3SA and focus on Security concerns for the boards? Gandolf can drop Lit and just focus on tech stuff and Sape can drop3SA and focus on....whatever it is he does? 3 new mods can be promoted for those slots and we can move along then?

 

Good point, do you think both instances should be moderated AmazingB? I do but things like that never are, even after I've sent PM's to ask the mysterious dedicated Communications administrator to remove the hostility. Apparently it's "negative commentary" so it's allowed. Who runs this forum again?.

So, you willingly and knowingly posted something that you feel shouldn't be allowed, but complain when other people post things you feel shouldn't be allowed? And since when are mods obligated to deal with an issue they're PMed about? They're free to disagree. And to answer your initial question, it's not the sort of thing I would have moderated, so no.

And we both know he wasn't allowed to on any of the occasions he did.
Don't we?

And yet he was very active in this very forum for a good long while late last year and early this year.

And Dahlin in Comms/TPM happened before the Supreme Chancellor deal came in, just like the other floating mods (all of whom were removed or given a forum to moderate) which brings us to the current climate where admins have a dedicated forum and their admin duties are an addendum to their normal job.

No mod job = no admin.

But you've been going on about the way things have been for two years, and it was only two years ago that Nathan was promoted to Admin. However, if you want to discuss things just since the Supreme Chancellor position was instituted (just one year ago), Vertical, the very first Supreme Chancellor, didn't have a dedicated Forum. It's not a new development.

Amazing.

 

OK, so G-Sac is cool to drop 3SA and focus on Security concerns for the boards? Gandolf can drop Lit and just focus on tech stuff and Sape can drop3SA and focus on....whatever it is he does? 3 new mods can be promoted for those slots and we can move along then?

They can, but they are not required to. There are several precedents (as Amazing has shown) for it.

Kimball Kinnison

 

"And yet he was very active in this very forum for a good long while late last year and early this year. "

And he was staff.
We going to keep spinning in circles here AmazingB or are you going to accept that Carter, being the representitive of the site staff and in control of the banner decisions at the time, had no input as a JC admin? No more than Lord Mauly Mall or the other site staff guys.

"And to answer your initial question, it's not the sort of thing I would have moderated, so no."

Ah yes....YodaJeff was involved.
I'd understand the reason for your blind eye if you you were still a mod

"Vertical, the very first Supreme Chancellor, didn't have a dedicated Forum. It's not a new development. "

For the first (and hopefully last) time ever, I'm gonna quote Darth_Dagsy:

".....we really cant look back at Vertical et al and their lack of forum, because that was back when floating mods were all the rage. Nowadays we simply dont have them. So to say 'Vert did it', doesnt make not having a forum ok for now. "

We don't have floating mods now.
They were all removed or given a forum to moderate.
Even Padme Bra, Security Admin at the time, was forced to take up Star Wars Small Screen to keep his admin status.
And now that's changed because KW feels he should focus more on Communications.....which is what he should be doing anyway as the PR Admin position. There's no reason for him to drop the Senate to focus on Comms, it's like reducing the amount of work expected from the people at the top.

 

If you ask me, an administrator's first priority should be whatever their administrative duty is (whether it's security, technical issues, etc). Their regular moderating should come second to that, time permitting. Every other mod has the power to help out with the regular moderating, but only the administrators have certain powers and responsibilities to keep everything else running smoothly.

When someone gets promoted to a leadership or management position in real life, they often leave behind some of their other day-to-day work to focus on keeping the group running as smoothly as possible. I don't see why things should be any different here.

DA, it isn't my fault that your posts make me roll my eyes. I know that I'm not the only one who remembers your dramatically increased activity in Comms (locking threads, posting, handing out warnings, etc) one of the last times an admin spot became vacant. It sounds to me like someone is a little jealous that he didn't make the cut, and will do anything possible to make those who did get promoted look bad. Typical schoolyard jealousy.

"Even Padme Bra, Security Admin at the time, was forced to take up Star Wars Small Screen to keep his admin status."

Not true. He volunteered to help with the forum. There was no "forcing" involved.