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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Mod Squad Update for the week ending December 1

Discussion in 'Communications' started by YodaJeff, Dec 2, 2002.

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  1. DarthSapient

    DarthSapient Jedi Youngling star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 26, 2001
    In the US, we don't really watch as much soccer as the rest of the world. If this were baseball, he would have been out after three strikes.
     
  2. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    I agree with it so much that I think we should start instituting corner kicks as well.

    And starting tomorrow you have to do all of your posting with your feet. Only AC members can use their hands.
     
  3. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    I agree with it so much that I think we should start instituting corner kicks as well.

    And starting tomorrow you have to do all of your posting with your feet. Only AC members can use their hands.


    But then ever thing I post will look like this. ahdhfashfshafh.


    In the US, we don't really watch as much soccer as the rest of the world. If this were baseball, he would have been out after three strikes.

    I don't watch soccer or baseball so no big loss there for me.
     
  4. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Still no comments on the same thing being done to Nailbiter.
     
  5. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    You mean this...
    "Not to beat the beat-up, buried dead horse, but someone once posted a fake screenshot of being logged in as Nailbiter. It too was obviously a joke. This person wasn't banned."

    Some vague recollection that "someone once posted an obvious joke" is hardly some credible issue to address, IMO. If you want anyone to address this, link to the exact situation where it occurred.

    Some things to consider...
    1. When was it done. (Waiting until now to bring it up to anyone doesn't speak very highly about one's motive of merely seeking "justice." It does, however, seem to be petty and tying this issue to something extraneous.)
    2. Was anyone in authority notified it was done and was action taken?
    3. It seems that you may be mistaken about Nailbiter's penalty. What was done, wasn't done solely because of one single item. It was done because of repeated habitual behavior found to be unacceptable here. So, unless that same person was also guilty of repeated bad behavior, the situations are hardly comparable.

    Does merely "posting a fake screenshot" automatically get someone banned under every single occurrence by every single person with the power to do so? I'm not quite sure, but I wouldn't think so.

    On a related note.

    Sapient...
    "In the US, we don't really watch as much soccer as the rest of the world. If this were baseball, he would have been out after three strikes."

    While that may be true, we'd also have a lot more people grabbing their crotch to give signals as well.
     
  6. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Some things to consider...
    1. When was it done. (Waiting until now to bring it up to anyone doesn't speak very highly about one's motive of merely seeking "justice." It does, however, seem to be petty and tying this issue to something extraneous.)


    For one, I only found out about this when I first posted that. Nailbiter told me himself, I don't read the Games forum too often. For two, if you have any question of my motives, perhaps you have not been paying attention, though in fairness, you have not been involved in my lengthy conversations with Vertical.

    2. Was anyone in authority notified it was done and was action taken?

    No action was taken, because, as in this situation, it was clearly a joke. Though I'm going to guess an admin knew, since it was an admin who did it, and who posted it. The picture itself was actually hosted on theforce.net, though it has been taken down. If you still want I can link, though it will do no good.

    3. It seems that you may be mistaken about Nailbiter's penalty. What was done, wasn't done solely because of one single item. It was done because of repeated habitual behavior found to be unacceptable here. So, unless that same person was also guilty of repeated bad behavior, the situations are hardly comparable.

    Of course they weren't, but the the screenshot offense is what broke the camel's back, and if another person (actually an admin) is able to do it and not get banned, then why was Nailbiter banned? So then if he never should have been banned, he shouldn't have been permabanned.
     
  7. Genghis12

    Genghis12 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 1999
    xie...
    "So then if he never should have been banned, he shouldn't have been permabanned."

    This is fallacious reasoning. As his permaban was not based on a single instance of a single banning. It, IMO would be correct to say that "So then if he never did what he did, then he most likely would not have been permabanned right now."

    The fact that one example of bad conduct was caught right now, but there may have been some past occurrences that were not does not excuse the current instance in any way.

    I'm quite sure that we haven't caught all of the instances of swearing, spamming or trolling that have ever occurred here in history either. But it doesn't mean we're going to stop enforcing those just because someone some time in the past may have gotten away with it.
     
  8. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    This is fallacious reasoning. As his permaban was not based on a single instance of a single banning. It, IMO would be correct to say that "So then if he never did what he did, then he most likely would not have been permabanned right now."

    Ok lets say so and so got banned x number of times. Why would a mod or any one else for that matter wait for the tenth miskat by the person to permaban. If after the 3rd ban the person keeps going agansit the TOS that person should be permaban. That's just my opinion.
     
  9. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    anidanami - I don't entirely follow you, but I will make do.

    You're saying if on my first day, I don't know the rules, so I spam a bit, and get a spank.

    Then a few weeks later I get a spank for a minor flame. (Remember, I'm still new)

    Then two months later, I make some post, and a mod makes a poor judgement call, and bans me.

    I should then be banned, forever. I'm not liking your logic here. You need to take into account the reasons for the bans (I'm not brining this into the Nailbiter thing, I'm just pointing out flawed logic). And no offense, but you didn't know Nailbiter.
     
  10. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Well I would hope that after that the 1st ban that the person woudl at lest read the TOS.

    But if they keep on trolling spaming or what ever else after the 2nd ban. Well yeah they should be banned for good.

    But you said well if they did not read the TOS. How do you know if I read them. How do I know that you read them.

    How do the mods know that any one read them. They have to take the persons word for it. In other words we don't know who read the TOS and who did not.

    Your right I don't know this person. But if this person had x number of bans in the past why keep letting him back. He does not seem to have lreand any thing.

     
  11. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    xie, as your sig points out, he wasnt new, he has been posting for over two years
     
  12. Master-Mishima

    Master-Mishima Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2002
    The only question I would pose to this thread is "has he been warned about being perm-banned if he continued to 'walk the line?'" If he had been warned that this would be the eventual result (and I know there are statements in the TOS) then there is no reason to unban him. However, given the circumstances (that a Mod did not dissuade this action prior to origin) if he had not be so warned, this may be a step too far, too quickly.

    It makes sense to evaluate this situation for the next "pizzathehutt."

    Master Mishima
     
  13. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    xie, as your sig points out, he wasnt new, he has been posting for over two years

    Reaper, as my post points out, I was not relating that situation to Jedi_Nailbiter. I was just pointing out fuzzy logic.
     
  14. farraday

    farraday Jedi Knight star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    anidanami124, I'll put your post down to relative inexperience, but violating the TOS doesn't get you banned.

    Violating the rules gets you banned. The TOS can act as a vaguely general guideline but it is not the Alpha and the Omega.

    If you'd like you can relate it to a Constitution. You get arrested for breaking the law, not for violating the constitution. The constitution includes some of thsoe laws but by no means all of them.

    So please stop appealing to the TOS.
     
  15. AmazingB

    AmazingB Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2001
    And no offense, but you didn't know Nailbiter.

    I don't see how knowing him means anything. If anything, your friendship with him, xie, seems to be clouding your judgement.

    The only question I would pose to this thread is "has he been warned about being perm-banned if he continued to 'walk the line?'"

    Why should he need to be warned that his actions could land him a permban? It's been common practice, as I understand it, to permban people with as many offenses as Nailbiter. Not knowing doesn't absolve him of anything.

    Amazing.
     
  16. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    I don't see how knowing him means anything. If anything, your friendship with him, xie, seems to be clouding your judgement.

    I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. What I meant was that this person was clearly not familiar with Nailbiter himself, his bannings, nor the situation at hand.

    Actually, my friendship with him has little to do with it, as I am just saying what I feel.
     
  17. ReaperFett

    ReaperFett Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    It obviously means something, he is now 1/5 of your sig lines :)
     
  18. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    1/4. And anyway, yeah I'm friends with him, but I'm doing my best to speak from an unbiased standpoint, and just present the facts as I see them.
     
  19. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Unfortunately, the facts "as you see them", are the facts according to Nailbiter.
     
  20. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Unfortunately, the facts "as you see them", are the facts according to Nailbiter.

    To an extent. He is giving me what information he has (IE: His bannings), but if you think I am acting as his voice on the JC, you are mistaken. He has givin me raw information, and is by no means "pulling the strings" here. He is telling me the raw facts, which is all I have to work with, true or not true.

    Then again, how fair is it that I have Nailbiter's words to work with, when you have all of the mods, plus his admin notes?

    And when did this become a "bash xie and his statements" party? The last few posts have been rather off the issue, and more directed at me personally.
     
  21. Master Salty

    Master Salty Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 1999
    Xie, I understand your argument, but there comes a point when you have to say enough is enough. If he didn't have the ban history I would agree that the perm-ban was way too stiff, but he does have the ban history.
     
  22. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    The issue was basically resolved as far as it's going to be resolved via PM, but other people don't want to let it die here, so I of course, had to continue to respond. //shrug

    EDIT: This isn't the "discuss xie update". So let's stop talking about me? Okieday?
     
  23. YodaJeff

    YodaJeff Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2001
    It wasn't the "discuss Nailbiter" update either... but I digress...
     
  24. xie

    xie Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Well at least that is related to the update, or that's how it started. //lets you digress
     
  25. anidanami124

    anidanami124 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 24, 2002
    Violating the rules gets you banned. The TOS can act as a vaguely general guideline but it is not the Alpha and the Omega.

    If you'd like you can relate it to a Constitution. You get arrested for breaking the law, not for violating the constitution. The constitution includes some of thsoe laws but by no means all of them.

    So please stop appealing to the TOS.


    Well I guess this means we shold get ready of the TOS and the constitution and all the laws that we have. We should also just let people come on to this site and spam, flame, or do what ever else they want to do.

    We have the TOS for a reason. We have rules for these borads for a reason. So that people don't start flaming one another, so that things don't get out of hand.

    We have the constitution and laws so that we don't have people taking away your rights. So that we don't have people how kill other people running around free.

    I'm sorry that I will go by the TOS and the rules of these borads. I did not know it was such a problem to go by what the TOS says and what the rules about posting say.

    If there is a mod out there tell me why we have the TOS, tell me why we have rules? Because it seems you some how don't have to go by them.
     
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