Mod Squad Update (for the week ending March 9th)

That would be a terrible idea. JCC is for mindless conversation while the Senate is for cultured, reasoned debate. <rolleyes.gif>

I agree. If a thread isn't compromising the integrity of the forum too much, leave it. Some interesting debate might help the JCC one way or another.

BTW, being somewhat less than sarcastic, did I mention how much I appreciate these Mod Updates? I can't speak for other poster, but this does make me feel slightly more connected with the Administration. It doesn't, obviously, bring them down from their cloud, but it does give me a bit of radar so I can see the outer edge of it. Nicely done.

~ DS5

 

"If it is doing well in one place....why move it?? Not everyne goes to the senate....or community. Don't fix something that is not broken....."

Redundancy. You can't discuss the same general topics in two forums.
It may be a bit harder in YJCC/ Senate.
Although.... politics and religion -> Senate. No matter how why and what.



TLJ
- former resident of The Film Music Hall

 

You would think, but you'll find plenty of political topics on the front page of Community. Either because the mods don't enforce the rule (KW can't do it all, he's the only mod I've seen correctly redirect a thread recently), or nobody cares.

It bugs the hell out of me though. If I want to discuss Iraq, War, Peace, and North Korea, I would go to the Senate. Not the same forum where we discuss (or try to) purple shirts.

 

"You would think, but you'll find plenty of political topics on the front page of Community. Either because the mods don't enforce the rule (KW can't do it all, he's the only mod I've seen correctly redirect a thread recently), or nobody cares."

Right.
Of course I would think that, because that is what they say. And of course KW can't watch all off YJCC to redirect - last time I checked he was Senate Floor Mod.
Nobody cares? Well, they should, it's one of the busiest forums and one that stirs up most of the complaints.


okay, what am I doing here, I'm not even a YJCCer.... ?

---

btw, good update ;)

 

Someone make cbjedi a Community mod.

AYBABTU?

 

No matter what, not everyone is going to be happy with whatever decision...so with THAT said.....

Again, why put so much thought into something that is SO TRIVIAL????? Why make something into DRAMA that is NOT DRAMA???


I was trying to post in one of the redirected threads yesterday....I went to post and it was locked.

DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHY!!! As there were NO COMPLAINTS, the thread was doing well and it was starting to become a VERY GOOD discussion. There was NO NEED to redirect it at all, it was thriving in it's origional environment....

No complaint=no change. Simple really.....

 

I don't recall the thread, darthmomm, but it was likely that that same discussion was taking place in another JCC thread. There's little need to have multiple threads discussing the same thing.

The matter of political discussion between the JCC and Senate isn't black and white, as cbjedi mentioned. The Senate is home to extended posts and more cohesive discussion of issues. In the JCC, the political discussion is more of a hit and run opinion style (post your opinion in a few sentences or paragraph and that's it), where the messages aren't that long and it's easier to follow.

Politics is on people's minds more than usual these days, and to eliminate it from the JCC wouldn't be right. At the same time, not everyone wants to see the front page of the JCC taken over by political threads, and so we try to have some kind of balance. Good, constructive discussion is fine, and people are always welcome to head over to the Senate for more in-depth debate.

At least one subject belongs in the Senate no matter what (religion). For most things though, it's just a matter of figuring out what's already being discussed, and whether it's appropriate or not.

 

It was not a repeat thread, I did ponder that, but it was not the case.

I understand that whole balance thing.....but again, one has to pick ones "battles".

NO harm done......why close it....

 

Of course there's the matter of how much political discussion should be allowed--.

Why is any? Isn't that the whole (or one of the key) purpose of the senate?


Politics is on people's minds more than usual these days, and to eliminate it from the JCC wouldn't be right. In the JCC, the political discussion is more of a hit and run opinion style (post your opinion in a few sentences or paragraph and that's it)

Well, true, but SW is on the minds of all the SW fans who visit this board, does that mean we keep only the serious SW debates in the movie forum, and move the more casual, the hit and run style threads over to YJCC?

As I've said, one of the key problems with the YJCC is that it's not clearly defined as a forum. Many of the needs for these so-called "reforms" would be eliminated if it would be clearly defined. Allowing things like "a little politics" makes the YJCC even more of a grey area, and thus gets more people confused and more people calling for unnecessary reforms.


Someone make cbjedi a Community mod.

I'm trying, but my admin controls only allow me to change my font styles.

 

As I've said, one of the key problems with the YJCC is that it's not clearly defined as a forum. Many of the needs for these so-called "reforms" would be eliminated if it would be clearly defined. Allowing things like "a little politics" makes the YJCC even more of a grey area, and thus gets more people confused and more people calling for unnecessary reforms.

Let's remember here folks, that this is a MESSAGE BOARD

Phrases such as "grey area" and "confused" should not be used in regards to posting in a message board. Reserve those phrases for things such as...oh, I don't know, real life

It really is very, very simple.

 

"Why is any? Isn't that the whole (or one of the key) purpose of the senate?"

Because serious discussion has been one of the many things lacking from the JCC in recent months, due in part to the Senate and Amphitheatre. Also, serious discussion in the JCC is almost always less serious than the discussion in the Senate. It's more like having lighthearted discussion on serious topics.

Amazing.

 

Why is any? Isn't that the whole (or one of the key) purpose of the senate?

That's the way the Senate has grown, but it's not the way the dividing line between the Senate and JCC was originally set. I think of the Senate as a debate forum and JCC as a forum for casual conversation. If the posting of a news article in JCC leads into a discussion of current events and politics, that's still within the bounds of what Community was meant for.

 

It really is very, very simple.


Sometimes, but not always. Way too many people and interests here for it to always be simple.

Why is any? Isn't that the whole (or one of the key) purpose of the senate?

It is the main place for political and serious debate, but it was never intended to be the only place.

Well, true, but SW is on the minds of all the SW fans who visit this board, does that mean we keep only the serious SW debates in the movie forum, and move the more casual, the hit and run style threads over to YJCC?


That's simply how it has worked out. Chatter is kept to a minimum in the Senate, and things need to be generally on topic. People know what to expect there, and things have developed accordingly. There are a few serious debates from time to time in the JCC, but not often, and that's just the nature of the forum.

I note that in 12 hours, the current (just started this morning) Senate Iraq thread has more posts than the JCC Iraq thread does in a month. By the time two people have replied to this, there will have been at least a couple more posts. There's an interest in the subject in the JCC, but it's manifested itself more in several smaller threads that fluctuate between serious discussion and more light talk. In the Senate, people are there to discuss the issues and do so.

As I've said, one of the key problems with the YJCC is that it's not clearly defined as a forum. Many of the needs for these so-called "reforms" would be eliminated if it would be clearly defined. Allowing things like "a little politics" makes the YJCC even more of a grey area, and thus gets more people confused and more people calling for unnecessary reforms.


Politics is on people's minds, and there's never been an exclusive place to discuss those issues. There's no need to make it absolute.

DLM brought up news articles, and something to remember is that news articles by themselves as threads are not allowed in the Senate. Those can go in the JCC, although just like anywhere else, it can be redirected if the article belongs in an existing thread.

The JCC needs some intelligent discussion, and if people are able to provide it within reason, there's no reason we shouldn't allow it.

 

Politics is on people's minds, and there's never been an exclusive place to discuss those issues. There's no need to make it absolute.

I already responded to that point. I'll copy/paste:
"Well, true, but SW is on the minds of all the SW fans who visit this board, does that mean we keep only the serious SW debates in the movie forum, and move the more casual, the hit and run style threads over to YJCC?"


The JCC needs some intelligent discussion, and if people are able to provide it within reason, there's no reason we shouldn't allow it.

Sure, I'm for intellegent discussion, but intellengence is all about quality of the discussion, not quality the subject itself. We can have a serious indepth discussions about a number of things related to say -- movies (SW or other), music (SW or other), games (SW or other), day-to-day life (work, romance, RL drama), politics, and/or religion. We can also just as easily have a silly or casual conversation about any of the above listed.

Honestly, I don't have any problem with politics being discussed in the YJCC per-say, I don't care what gets discussed in the YJCC as long as it's TOS. However, we have a forum dedicate for topics like politics, so then you have to decide how much (and of what type) goes in one place and what goes in the other. Now, if you allow a little here and a little there, you're going to be playing a balancing act. This balance will not be clearly defined by the administration, so periodically, mods will come in and start locking threads and people will wonder why and get irritated. A topic should be all allowed in forum (TOS permitted) or not at all. This grey area will end up confusing users and mods alike and causing easily avoided drama.

 

I think of the Senate as a debate forum and JCC as a forum for casual conversation.

I agree, DLM. It may be a bad analogy, but I've said before that I think the discussion of topics in the JCC should be more of a discussion that would happen at a coffee shop, bar, social gathering, etc. While the discussion in the Senate is one that would take place in a university classroom, for instance.

The only difference is the environment that the forum provides, and that decision is left up to the thread poster depending on what he/she wants.

 

"Well, true, but SW is on the minds of all the SW fans who visit this board, does that mean we keep only the serious SW debates in the movie forum, and move the more casual, the hit and run style threads over to YJCC?"


I'm afraid I don't understand your point. The style of conversation and discussion has simply developed over time. It hasn't been forced this way.

However, we have a forum dedicate for topics like politics, so then you have to decide how much (and of what type) goes in one place and what goes in the other.

Why do we have to make concrete allowances? That doesn't seem to make sense. As long as it's within reason, it seems fine to me. Please understand that the Senate was never intended as the only place to discuss politics and serious subjects. It may have been misunderstood to that end for some time in the past, but the intelligent and serious discussions (including political issues) can take place in the JCC as well.

Now, if you allow a little here and a little there, you're going to be playing a balancing act.

Just about everything is allowed in the Senate, and there's a lot that's allowed in the JCC as well. Much of it depends on the nature of the forum regulars and the moderation, which is different between the two forums.

This balance will not be clearly defined by the administration, so periodically, mods will come in and start locking threads and people will wonder why and get irritated. A topic should be all allowed in forum (TOS permitted) or not at all. This grey area will end up confusing users and mods alike and causing easily avoided drama.

Perhaps we haven't done a good job with "defining" it as we should have, but that doesn't mean that we can't now, or that it even has to be concrete. If something is locked, then it can be explained to people who don't understand. The one subject that comes to mind that's not allowed for discussion in the JCC is religion, and that's been followed for a long time now.

The "drama" part seems unfounded to me, because this hasn't been a big issue in the past. It has come up in the AC on a few occasions, and in private messages to me, but not on any "drama" level.

 

Well, true, but SW is on the minds of all the SW fans who visit this board, does that mean we keep only the serious SW debates in the movie forum, and move the more casual, the hit and run style threads over to YJCC?

We have Star Wars Community for these 'hit and run' style SW threads.

Same prinicple.

The best way I like to look at political discussions in the JCC and Senate, is to emphasise the purposes of the forums.

The Senate Floor is like a debating room. A place for serious discussion, where you argue the topics strictly, and there isnt that much room for messing around.

The JCC is like hanging out with your friends at a cafe. You can sit there and have lighthearted conversations. The conversations can drift where they will. It can drift onto politics, but its likely that (as is always the case with friends) you'll sit there and joke around while discussing.

Thats why its ok to have a few low level political threads. Because not everyone that wants to discuss politics wants to be deadly serious.

 

This grey area will end up confusing users and mods alike and causing easily avoided drama

I doubt highly that this "grey area" is going to cause mass confusion amongst the vast majority of mods and members. Really now.....

Servers won'tcrash, national security will not be compromised, heads will not explode.

Sorry about the saracasm... , I am feeling sarcastic tonight.

 

I don't see any real harm with political threads in the YJCC. No harm at all. We can't be so uptight. In the Senate, what you get is true political discussion. It's serious talk. And the same is true for a political thread in the YJCC. The main difference is you'll inevitably have some of the regulars trying to interject a class-clown joke here and there and a fart joke might makes its way into the thread. Big woop. Let's loosen the reins a bit.

 

Well many of the topics that you like 'bug the hell out of me'. As I'm sure that the topics I like probably bug the hell out of a lot of people. To each is own. Just because there's topics that you don't like on the front page of YJCC doesn't mean that they don't belong there. In fact, considering they are on the front page should speak volumes. It means there's interest in them. Why in the world should I go in there, ruin their fun just because you, me or anyone else doesn't like their topics? I want to see as many people as possible enjoy YJCC. That's why it's there. And as long as they aren't posting something sexual explicit, inflammatory, or otherwise against the tos I loath to make them stop posting in the manor that they enjoy. If that means political threads, or for that matter purple shirt threads then so be it.

We need more mods like this. Badly.

As I've said, one of the key problems with the YJCC is that it's not clearly defined as a forum.

You may or may not recall that YJCC used to be called "Miscellaneous"

Oh and folks, let's not forget something- It is the height of arrogance to try and say that people having fun or being laid back means there is a lack of intelligence in YJCC. Many of the "intelligent" members often participate in "unintelligent discussion." Don't insult people by basically saying that YJCC isn't intelligent enough for you.

 

Perhaps we haven't done a good job with "defining" it as we should have, but that doesn't mean that we can't now

Sure, I'm not saying it's too late.


The "drama" part seems unfounded to me, because this hasn't been a big issue in the past. It has come up in the AC on a few occasions, and in private messages to me, but not on any "drama" level.

You don't think the issue of YJCC reforms has been a source of drama? That's what I refer to -- the unpreticable allowing and disallowing of threads which has occured in the past which has had a number of people to call for reforms, or to disban reforms, depending on the timeframe and person.


I doubt highly that this "grey area" is going to cause mass confusion amongst the vast majority of mods and members. Really now..... Servers won't crash, national security will not be compromised, heads will not explode.

PPOR!

 

"Oh and folks, let's not forget something- It is the height of arrogance to try and say that people having fun or being laid back means there is a lack of intelligence in YJCC. Many of the "intelligent" members often participate in "unintelligent discussion." Don't insult people by basically saying that YJCC isn't intelligent enough for you."

Your opinion would be much more valued if it wasn't hidden behind a sock.

 

I agree with administration on all of these issuess.....