MS Update Mod Squad Update to May 19th

Whether you have dissected a fetal pig, mouse, or even a human cadaver is immaterial. It was the decision of hte Mod Squad that in that context, such images are not in harmony with the tone that the owners of this message board wish to promote.

Some people (but not a majority) found it offensive. Almost everyone agreed that it was inappropriate.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Would it be considered appropriate in another context?

 

I think so Carmen, given KK's recent post.

So, can I start a dissected animals thread on the JCC ?

 

I can think of at least one appropriate context, and that would be in a serious discussion on biology in the Senate (as I stated earlier).

However, posting a picture like that just for the sake of posting it would not be appropriate.

Kimball Kinnison

 

ok, so how about "Dissected Animal Lovers Club" thread, or perhaps "What did malkie cut up today?" thread ?

 

I believe I know which thread you're refering too and in that particular instance, the Moderator was ASKED to come in and lock the thread, and the reason given was the simple fact that the discussion had become a firestorm and none of the Moderators for that forum were about.

"Discussion" is quite a stretch for what that thread was, Breezy.

obaona: Considering how much **** was hitting the fan there, I think anyone should be able to figure out why that thread was locked, and I assume that unless people are really bored and are looking to watch a boxing match or trying to get someone banned (which is certainly not what I come online for), they'd be happy about it.

The thread was removed by the moderator who started the thread, and I certainly think it was her prerogative to do so if she didn't want it there anymore or felt it had served its purpose.

And no, I don't think the moderator who locked the thread owed anyone an explanation. They are moderators, and they should be able to make decisions without explaining themselves to everyone--that's why they were given colors.

 

Once again to clairfy even though it really has no bearing here (but as the questrion was raised...)

No, no reason was given anywhere. I checked.

I'm sorry, you must have missed it. CrazyMike was availble (and is always a level headed Mod) made a note at the end of the thread stating that he was locking it for the time being until the Fan Fiction Mods could look into it. Ultimately they decided to delete it as it really had no constructive purpose there.

Edit on the topic of Dissection images... NO THANK YOU.

 

Obaona ? No, no reason was given anywhere. I checked. The thread was also deleted shortly thereafter, which really surprised me, which I thought only happened in pruning or if every post in the thread needed to be edited.

Did you ask any of the fan fic mods about it? The reason it was locked was that it had descended into arguing. The reason it was removed was that the state it was in it was no longer helpful to the WRF. The information was archived, for review of the many good ideas and thoughts expressed in it to be put toward changes and improvements to the WRF and fan fiction boards.

 

So every time something happens, I have to PM a moderator to figure out what was going on? Can I ask for a more public explanation in the future, to avoid confusion? It would be appreciated. (I was told the thread was deleted by someone else, who had no idea why it was deleted either. Edit - nor, I might add, was there any way to know the helpful suggestions were being kept somewhere, outside of asking. Do you really think having every person ask you what happened is the best method?)

 

In the future I will try to leave a note or something when actions like that are taken.

 

Thank you. May I suggest using the Administrative Announcements thread?

 

Oboana, I am curious as to who, exactly, you asked for information? None of us has received any query from you, and I don't believe Crazy Mike has, either. (Mike, BTW, we are grateful you stepped in and took care of it).

Secondly, if a thread is removed (something that we RARELY do, we usually lock), it is certainly because there was material that was inappropriate. There does NOT need to be a "public explanation", and in some cases there SHOULD not be a public explanation. It is our experience that "public explanation" often turns into "public discussion" which only leads to continuance of the behavior for which the thread was locked in the first place.

We have indeed copies of the entire thread, and we are discussing many of the more positive and constructive recommendations among ourselves as we try to make changes to the Writer's Resource Forum to make it more accessible to all members of the Fan Fiction Community.

 

You know very well I didn't ask, please don't ignore what I've said - I thought it odd an explanation wasn't given, as that is normally the case. That's my issue here: clarity. (And I did not see a reason given for locking; whether it was there and I missed it, I don't know, and it's impossible to say now.)

When people participate in a thread and give a lot of time and effort into a good response, and that thread is deleted with no explanation or warning, yes, I think that does warrant a public explanation. (Someone posting a thread about porn and that getting deleted doesn't need an explanation. A discussion thread does.) How are people to know what happened or if responses were saved? Do you think having possibly dozens of people ask individually about what happened is really that effective?

 

For what its worth, re: Dissected mouse, this was what I had to say in the MS:

A dissected mouse?

Geez, welcome to my EVERY SINGLE DAY

 

I second Renata and RRK in that I'm curious as to whom you went for your information and how exactly they knew what was going on.

A quick, simple PM to any one of us would have answered your question in record time. Like Ren said, publicising anything recently has lead to a public discussion which has invariably turned nasty. We deemed that leaving the discussion there served no positive purpose for the forum and it was removed so that we could discuss its points privately.

The reason was given loud and clear at the bottom of the last post - it was certainly there. The thread was also left for quite some time before it was deleted.

There - all three fanfic moderators have replied and given our explanation. The admin announcement thread is the least used offical resource in that forum (in that it is rarely ever utilised by the community)- so I really see no point in posting it there. I for one don't mind answering multiple PM's on a subject

Kithera

 

And no, I don't think the moderator who locked the thread owed anyone an explanation. They are moderators, and they should be able to make decisions without explaining themselves to everyone--that's why they were given colors.

That's an alarming attitude to have.

Moderators should always be able to explain themselves and their decisions if necesary (unless it involves a ban, which is a different matter). Moderators do not and should not have carte blanche to do whatever they want without being accountable.

Threads should not be removed unless the material is highly inappropriate, which usually happens only with heavy trolling or profanity throughout several posts or the thread. Simply because something is not "constructive" or "helpful" doesn't make it okay to delete a thread. That's not to say threads should not be deleted for pruning purposes (I kept the Senate pruned of locked, short-lived threads), but that's a different matter.

There does NOT need to be a "public explanation", and in some cases there SHOULD not be a public explanation. It is our experience that "public explanation" often turns into "public discussion" which only leads to continuance of the behavior for which the thread was locked in the first place.

Yes, there does need to be an explanation offered. If not publically, then at least privately. Otherwise, you run the risk of people going over your head and contacting administrators to investigate the situation. If public discussion ensues from a decision (especially if the decisions was questionable), it's not a bad thing. Openness is good more often than it's not.

In short, please don't delete threads unless they're extremely inappropriate, and please do offer explanations for moderator actions if such an explanation is requested.

 

KW - all three of us *have* offered explanations. The same explanation for that matter. What I find alarming is that a regular user has to come to Comms first before she tries contacting one of us to find out what happened.

Other people have contacted us and asked what happened, and to them we've given an answer which they were happy with. Why can't Obaona do what everyone else has done? In the past, when you were an admin, if someone had brought something up like that you would have told them to take it to their moderators first... why not this time?

Kithera

 

If public discussion ensues from a decision (especially if the decisions was questionable), it's not a bad thing. Openness is good more often than it's not.

And sometimes it's not.

In short, please don't delete threads unless they're extremely inappropriate, and please do offer explanations for moderator actions if such an explanation is requested.

As Kit mentioned, an explanation WAS given before the thread was removed. We have been glad to explain to the many people who PMed us the reason, although anyone who had been following it would have understood exactly why it was removed.

Removing threads is not something we usually have to do in FanFiction. The fact that this had to be done bothers us a great deal.

 

KW - all three of us *have* offered explanations. The same explanation for that matter. What I find alarming is that a regular user has to come to Comms first before she tries contacting one of us to find out what happened.


Typically, explanations are offered at least in part in a thread, and threads are rarely deleted. So, those two things taken together could explain why one person did what they did.


As Kit mentioned, an explanation WAS given before the thread was removed.

How long did it remain up before removal, though? If it was up for a day or two, that sounds quite reasonable to me. Just a few hours isn't sufficient time for enough people to see it.

And sometimes it's not.

When do you think it isn't?

Removing threads is not something we usually have to do in FanFiction. The fact that this had to be done bothers us a great deal.

What was contained in the thread that made it necessary to remove?

I've long been against thread deletions, so this is only an example of a general concern of mine.

 

As a rule, KW, we do not like to delete threads either. And we are not secretive (this is not the Star Chamber).

If you wish to discuss it further, you are welcome to send a PM to Kit, RRK and myself. Bear in mind that we probably won't be able to tell you much more; we've been pretty straightforward in this thread regarding the situation and our explanations.

I'd rather not clutter up the rest of this thread with this.

 

Edit: Nevermind. I think it's taken care of for now.

 

The admins know what's going on--I PMed a couple of them myself--so ask away.

That's an alarming attitude to have.

Moderators should always be able to explain themselves and their decisions if necesary (unless it involves a ban, which is a different matter). Moderators do not and should not have carte blanche to do whatever they want without being accountable.

It's not a matter of accountability. Being accountable doesn't mean you owe an explanation of your actions to every Joe Poster who asks. I'm certainly accountable for what I do in my classroom, but that doesn't mean I have to give detailed explanations to each of my students on how I run it. I am accountable to my principal and my assistant principals.

If you put the moderators in a position where the users are allowed to control them and boss them around, then you take away their authority. Were these guys picked as moderators for their good judgment, or not?

Yes, there does need to be an explanation offered. If not publically, then at least privately. Otherwise, you run the risk of people going over your head and contacting administrators to investigate the situation.

And if the moderator hasn't done anything wrong, why would he/she be upset about you going to an administrator?

There does NOT need to be a "public explanation", and in some cases there SHOULD not be a public explanation. It is our experience that "public explanation" often turns into "public discussion" which only leads to continuance of the behavior for which the thread was locked in the first place.

Exactly. Moderators should be able to make a decision without going through a committee. And given how completely nasty and ugly that thread was the other night, I don't even want to think about how further discussion would have gone.

I don't understand why anyone would want it to remain open to be honest, unless they were either looking for someone to get banned or they were enjoying the drama as entertainment.

Someone posting a thread about porn and that getting deleted doesn't need an explanation. A discussion thread does.

I'm pretty sure you saw that discussion thread and saw the direction it had taken. There was no other way for it to go but be locked.

Typically, explanations are offered at least in part in a thread, and threads are rarely deleted. So, those two things taken together could explain why one person did what they did.

That would explain why she asked about it, but not why she did it in Coms.

 

I've PMed an explanation to KnightWriter. If anyone else has a question on the Great FanFiction Thread Locking of 2004, please PM it to one of us mods.

 

I appreciate the PM and explanations .