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Full Series Moraband

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Jedi Knight Fett, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. Werebazs

    Werebazs Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    It's been made clear by both the episode itself, and by Filoni that the snakes and the Sith-spirits were also creations of the Priestesses.
    "All your trials you've faced, have been our doing."
    Serenity Priestess, Sacrefice 8:20 onward
    Which means it was them who told Sidious and Dooku, and not some long-forgotten Sith disturbed in their sleep .
    I'd say Ventress simply just likes the snake motif.
     
  2. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

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    Nov 1, 2012
    I think it is stretching it to assume the Priestess told Sidious.
     
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  3. Werebazs

    Werebazs Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 20, 2013
    It's not an assumption, it's a fact. The "Sith spirits" were created by the Priestesses. This was confirmed both in the episode and by Filoni. These same spirits told Yoda that they "would tell them", and the next scene is Dooku sensing something and immediately summoned to Corruscant by Sidious.
     
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  4. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Well they told Yoda where to go for his trials, like Jinn did at first, not that they created everything. So it not a clear fact.

    Anyway that was not the original idea, and there appear to be conflicting ideas to where its left deliberately or not, unresolved. Revan and Bane were set to appear originally as actual Spirits:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane/Canon#cite_note-SWEBane-0

    The Sith Warrior Spirits do not appear to be creations or even Bane at all during the episode, and the new continuity clearly gives life to Sith Shrines as I stated and which is a modern and current fact. Filoni's personal interpretation of the Force (and possibly Lucas's even) is rendered wrong as the two arent in charge anymore. Moraband is one big gigantic Sith shrine and a grave yard of the Sith basically.
     
  5. Werebazs

    Werebazs Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 20, 2013
    Except they flat-out say that everything Yoda had faced on the journey was their doing. See my first post on the top of the page.
    I knew about the Mortis stuff, however the scene was cut, so it's non-canon, and according to Filoni, Lucas's final and last stance in the matter was that the Sith are incapable of returning as Spirits.

    Again: the Priestesses said so themselves, and THAT is a fact. I'm also quite sure Filoni was said to be part of the Story Group, so yes his opinions of the Force still count very much (in fact he might be the guy who knows the most about it, since he has extensive knowledge on both the Legends stuff, and (more impotantly) about Lucas's views on it).
    And finally: noone said anything about places not having a strong connections to whichever side of the Force. That is very clearly canon, and goes way back to "Empire Strikes Back", which introduced the Dark Side cave on Dagobah. However that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not a Sith is capable of returning as a spirit. Can the tomb of a Sith be a strong conduit in the Dark Side? Absolutely. But it doesn't mean that the Sith is actually haunting it.
     
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  6. Toonimator

    Toonimator Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 16, 2006
    Why would the Force Priestesses alert the living & very dangerous Sith to what Yoda was doing? That's pretty messed up...

    ...also, it is not a 'fact'. It's an interpretation of them saying they're responsible for all of Yoda's trials.
     
  7. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014

    This. so much.
     
  8. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I really hope that Moraband gets a Q & A video. The spirits and the name need to be addressed.
     
  9. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2003
    Because the Priestesses exist entirely outside of conventional morality; one might as well imagine us expressing concern for the ants. They play for keeps, and they've obviously decided that the best test is a life-and-death test in which Yoda has real risk involved. It's dangerous, it's cruel, and it's appropriate given the stakes. If something happens to Yoda - if he is killed, or seduced - then he was obviously unfit for the great gift they were offering. But considering that these beings, living in between the realms, exist where there is neither future nor past, then it's entirely possible that they knew in advance if he would pass or not, which for them entirely neuters the concern about what the very dangerous Sith Lords could or would do to him.
     
  10. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 19, 2003
  11. Darth Zannah

    Darth Zannah Jedi Knight star 3

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    Oct 28, 2014
    I really hope this planet makes an appearance in the sequel trilogy!

    And I'm not sure how Disney canon is but in the old EU the original Sith were a species from an entirely different planet and were eventually killed off by fallen Jedi who then made koriband/moraband one of their home planets...I wonder if moraband will show up in rebels...
     
  12. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I wonder whether or not Ziost and Dromund Kaas exist in the new canon.
     
  13. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    I mean Taris exists in new Canon so why not.
     
  14. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    The "fact" about the Sith Spirits or Darth Bane on the show is not known as it left up in the air. Actually Moraband being this big a burial ground and one big Sith tomb would beg the question how then would the Priestess have dominion over such a great evil land completely imbued with the darkside. Not only that but they're able to replicate Darth Bane's physical form, his voice and concious and form Sith Warrior specters and contact two Sith Lords of the current era. And we being that the darkside has abilities natural and unnatural, so we do not know what they're capable of themselves, Sidious is able to perform sorcery and project his evil conscious into Yoda's mind but Yoda did not have the ability to do it Sidious or Dooku. Talzin was able to prolong her existence and regenerate a physical form whenever she phased out, she'd suck the force outve a force being like a vampire would blood. The Sith were sacrificing Jedi on Moraband to what deity or why we do not know, but clearly in worship and to gain greater power. The Tarkin novel revelation where a Sith shrine does have the ability effect the living for many thousands of years. The Force is an energy field, the darkside is part of that energy field. There is no reason why the luminous beings that all sentients are in the Star Wars universe(which includes Sith) cannot also manifest themselves to form a spirit or ghost, as they have midiclorians perhaps level more than even Jedi. Just because Filoni says so, its not good enough a "fact" at all in cases like these. There is questions that are not answered and left there for the audience.




    You attempting to ignore the obvious religious and corporeal significance and connotations of the key word, shrine, and the Sith being a religious sect, not hard to draw the picture is it?! So what is a shrine..

    1.
    a building or other shelter, often of a stately or sumptuous character, enclosing the remains or relics of a saint or other holy person and forming an object of religious veneration and pilgrimage.
    2.
    any place or object hallowed by its history or associations:
    a historic shrine.
    3.
    any structure or place consecrated or devoted to some saint, holy person, or deity, as an altar, chapel, church, or temple.
    4.
    a receptacle for sacred relics; a reliquary.

    That doesnt bode well for Filoni interpretation. Actually the Dagobah cave of evil even in EU was indeed a burial and haunted:

    -Wookiepedia

    And if you go back to concept art of ANH, their you'd also find the Sith spirit trapped in the pyramid temple of Yavin. Seems either Filoni is pulling legs, not as well read on the subject material or had an objection to Sith Spirits which is not as well explained as he would like.


    For the "Force Priestess" or "Priestesses", to exist outside of conventional morality is basically giving them a license to being both amoral and immoral and existing outside the laws of prosecution as they cannot be held accountable under any law, whether man made or natural law. You're creating a God-like being, which can do as it pleases. If what you want to believe about the Force Priestesses" is true, then you'd have to come to the realization of Filoni's interpretation was that the Force Priestess is basically this amoral and ethically ambiguous entity, and at some point was alive. Her affiliation is unknown, to which Filoni has no answer on who she was while alive which is problematic if you're developing some sorta mythological figure that is supposed to be part of a lightside/goodside religion clearly on the show. You could also interpret the Mortis family of the Father, Son and Daughter being just one entity or their spirits are trapped inside the monolith which acts a tomb.

    For all we know the Force Priestess could be a darkside entity, or maybe it teaches one Jedi the trick and one Sith to keep balance, as this is pretty much what you got left following this interpretation. The Priestesses and Jinn make a big deal out've training Yoda as the chosen, while he teaches it to Kenobi and somehow Anakin is able to do it(likely by communing with Jinn on his own but Jinn wouldve know he'd become Vader), but he's able to keep his youth(even though he doing great acts of evil and basically his greatest evil while he was young so for the young and old to matter is not believable). For all we know Luke learned and trained Leia and so and fourth where its no longer unique just part've their training for anyone to acquire the trick.

    The whole reasoning behind Yoda being tested if he's worthy, becomes moot and ultimately a waste of viewing time. If Jinn takes it upon himself anyway to train Anakin - and Yoda takes it upon himself to train Kenobi. Also by then Jinn wouldve trained Anakin, as its not likely he'd be training Vader, and if he trained Anakin did he bother to inform either Yoda or Kenobi that hey, maybe Anakin/Vader told his new master Darth Sidious. If Anakin knew the secret, then why did he need Sidious and the whole BS about cheating death and saving Padme?!

    We do not see anything special about Yoda, clearly the Force Priestess had very much a negative and so evil side so it does not appear to be persons of pure goodness that are only able to transform - Kenobi & Yoda were able to take his whole body while Jinn could not as his training was incomplete, yet he appeared on Mortis in his own former form. Unless the Jinn form was a darkside illusion afterall.


    Plus we learn that Kenobi is basically forbidden to directly interfere(as he could not face Vader with Luke) and his appearances to Luke are very specifically chosen, mainly sporadic in nature - often when Luke is under moments of great stress or conflict, mental, spiritual or physical or all the above. One could be at this all day at length really speculating.
     
  15. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 23, 2014
    I tend to agree, for argument sake - all things being equal, a Sith or other force sensitive that wasn't a Jedi should be at least capable of achieving immortality by the same means. It doesn't mean someone has, but they shouldn't be precluded from the possibility. Vader redeemed himself at death, and was capable of it. When it comes to Bane and the Sith warriors, perhaps they are residual ghosts - like an echo in time, because the planet resonates their once great power. We saw Talzin and the Nightsisters use Dathomir in a similar way. Talzin used the darkside, and achieved immortality - how is she different than a Sith, in anything but name?
     
  16. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    It is possible for Sith spirits to be similar, or identical, to ghosts in comtemporay culture - who are trapped on Earth; their inability to let go means they are imprisoned on the Earth and left to wonder the physical realm.
     
  17. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2003
    My impression from dialogue cut from ROTS (and largely kept in the novelization, so it's still canon) was that this form of immortality could only be achieved through selflessness, not selfishness, through compassion rather than greed.

    The Sith don't believe in anything, ultimately, outside of the self. They certainly don't believe in life beyond death. The episode "Sacrifice" makes this clear in a couple areas: the "spirits" of the Sith warriors tell Yoda, "There is no life after death. Only nothingness awaits you, Jedi. [...] You will die and be nothing."; when Yoda states to "Sifo-Dyas" that the Sith are captivated by the physical realm, "Sifo-Dyas" retorts, "What else is there?" This is supplemented with what Filoni has had to say about the matter, undoubtedly informed by Lucas (which is why, as far as I'm concerned, authorial intent matters), in this interview with Rebel Force Radio:

    The Sith are devoted to the absolute empowerment of the self and disdainful of any concept distinct from the self, so the Sith clings to his physical life first and foremost. If the Sith believe in nothing beyond death (and I would think that belief in the possibility would be a prerequisite to actually attaining it), the maintenance of the living self is of the utmost importance - a Sith, after all, has first to be alive if he wishes to empower himself; all else is secondary. That's pretty poor raw material for the Priestesses to work from, as they continually emphasize that one must let go of the self and its concerns: "At death," Serenity says to Yoda in "Destiny," "in order to preserve in order for you to preserve your identity, you must know yourself - your true self - and then let it go." None of the Sith look like they're ready for that kind of introspection, until Vader finally does it in ROTJ and then commits the most important selfless act of the Saga. This is why Qui-Gon, in the ROTS novelization, insists that "it comes through compassion, not greed."

    Nor would a Sith necessarily welcome the kind of immortality we're talking about here. A Sith in the form of the blue glowy (Sam Witwer's amusing term for the phenomenon) would not be able to truly physically influence things in the physical world, and that's where their concern is, not with the netherworld. They'd just as soon dismiss this form of immortality as naive and stupid hippy-dippy-trippy nonsense. They don't want any of that - they want to be immortal in the physical world, in their own bodies. That's the only kind of immortality that counts for them.

    Can a non-Jedi Force-talented being achieve this form of immortality? Yes - if the Priestesses decide that being is worthy of being taught. Is it possible to achieve it without their say-so? Maybe - after all, the Priestesses themselves (or I should say herself) achieved it in a time when I'm guessing there were little to no Jedi yet. But in this time and place, it's not very likely, and in my informed judgment it's probably impossible for a Sith in this time and place.
     
  18. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    I don't see anything about spirits in any of these definitions.
    That concept art was for Junior Jedi Knights: The Golden Globe, not for ANH.
     
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  19. vong333

    vong333 Force Ghost star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    Great debate and great points but here is the problem...especially with the poster that said that GL version on sith spirits was final.....a long time ago that very same person said that there was never going to be 7,8, and 9 movie. That the 6 movie series was it.....hmmmm on dec 18 2015 .......episode 7 a movie that was never coming out is coming out. I will say this, anything and everything is possible. Like Yoda says in test, unlearn what you have learned..which is what's hard for many of you as you keep referencing legends stuff. The only thing I learned is that Disney is the new owner, Kennedy is the president , marvel has the license to tell Star Wars comics, and the story group decides what is canon.

    And to through a wrench out there on sith shrines........and places of power and their capabilities you need to read the Tarkin novel...which is official canon. Palpatine was in a sith shrine directly under the Jedi temple........he said that the place may have helped confuse the Jedi as he machinated his way to their demise. Almost like the exorcist: the beginning movie where a Byzantine church was built over the place where lucifer fell after the war in heaven.
     
  20. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    but it's not just GL's word that says there can't be Sith spirits. He forbade the presence of Sith spirits in Ghosts of Mortis, an entire arc of TCW covers the long journey to becoming a spirit, and story group says that it would require "extraordinary circumstances" for a Sith to become a spirit.
     
  21. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 23, 2014
    It seems like a Sith can redeem themselves and almost instantly become a Force ghost. Vader killed the Emperor and shortly after died himself, only to manifest as a ghost within what was probably hours. To me, it feels similar to some Earth religions, where you can commit evil acts, but redeem yourself by repenting, seeking forgiveness, etc and still pass to the afterlife...
     
  22. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

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    Oct 24, 2013
    Werebazs you might be taking what they said too literally. Maybe they did tell the Sith of Yoda, or maybe they led Yoda to Karriban because they knew his presence there would bring about certain events. In the latter case it would still be their doing even though they didn't directly contact Sidious.
     
  23. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2014
    Well the good one.
     
  24. Werebazs

    Werebazs Jedi Master star 1

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    Mar 20, 2013
    As far as I know, he never said he won't ever sell the rights to someone who would make a sequel trilogy ;) What I meant with Lucas's statement being final is that he made himself clear on the matter. Now I know, he has changed his mind a gazillion times even making 180ies sometimes. However since he sold the rights, he no longer has that power. Which brings us to the next point
    Exactly! Kennedy has worked with Lucas for a very long time (twenty years? thirty?), and the story group also include people who know a lot about Lucas's version of SW, and as far as we know Disney leaves the creative decisions to them. And both the Legends and TCW Legacy announcements made it very clear that these people respect the decisions Lucas has made while he owned the franchise. They won't just ignore what they had learned from him. So if Lucas's final opinion before selling the franchise was that Sith spirits cannot exist, the people in charge now, will be more likely to follow it, than not.
    Again: I never said, that a Sith whatever can't leave a powerful Dark Side impession. Even the Priestesses mentioned that the Sith temple Yoda visited was very strongly imbuned in the Dark Side, due to the fact it was used as a sacreficial pit, where the Sith used to murder Jedi. However a place having a Dark Side impression, doesn't mean that the impression is an individual, uncorporeal person.
    Anakin is a special case. Filoni did mention that Lucas explained his version on how Anakin came back as a ghost, and they might tell a story that explains it...one day. Force ghosting is not the Star Wars version of afterlife anyway. Afterlife is becoming one with the Force, while losing one's individuality. Force ghosting is becoming one with the Force, while keeping individuality.
     
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  25. Mother_Talzin

    Mother_Talzin Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 23, 2014
    We know that becoming one with the Force is the SW version of the afterlife, but becoming a ghost is also an element of that same afterlife, only certain beings can / have been able to achieve it though. Its similar to how popular culture on Earth views it, in that some people simply transition from the physical realm to the spirit realm, while others are said to "haunt" certain locations, and are able to manifest. I think Lucas borrowed and combined several opinions on the afterlife from religions, mythology, and popular culture to derive his SW afterlife.