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Lit More Jacen Apologist Thinking re: Darth Krayt

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Nov 15, 2004
    Right, I believe everyone knows I'm a Jacen Solo fan, right up to the point the lightsaber cut through his heart, and I have lamented that day for these long years.


    By Invincible and arguably for much of FotJ Jacen's 'grey' approach to life, in that he became Darth Caedus to end the brewing war and undo a bad future, seemed justified in that it did fundamentally end that war and seemingly undo said future.

    A 'bad' thing allowed for a 'good' thing to happen. Said bad things become justified, on some level. In as simple philosophical speak as possible. I'm dumbing it down if only because it's Jacen logic i.e. convoluted.

    As FotJ progressed, our galaxy became more black and white when Jacen's actions not only elevated Daala, who returned to her nutjob ways, but we also had it revealed that his actions released the Tribe and Abeloth.

    A 'bad' thing caused more 'bad' things in the end, and the bad things became unjustified because they were short sighted.

    Good Star Wars logic, which is oddly helped by having FotJ so close to LotF.


    We also found out that Jacen's actions delayed Darth Krayt's rise. That delay means that Darth Krayt, rather than emerging in Allana's lifetime, so, in the next few years/decades, instead emerges in 128 ABY. Not, because Krayt was much older, his body was that much more vulnerable to his Vong infection, and as such he was driven to hunt down Cade, prematurely ending his reign via the events of Legacy.

    So, Jacen's bad things cause... good things?


    It doesn't matter how old Krayt is in 128 ABY because he goes back into stasis straight after Jacen's actions ruin his scheme and he was going to stick himself and his One Sith in his self-defeating loop anyway. All that would have been different was a different numerical value attached to Wyyrlok, and Bastion and Roan replaced Hapes and Allana. Which means in theory Krayt would have more Sith to hand than Luke had Jedi as early as Allana's lifetime.

    Jacen's bad things thus still cause more bad things than good things.

    Joe Antonetti and Zorrixor like this.
  2. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jul 6, 2007
    Darth Krayt likely would not have been able to rise without his army. He most certainly would have looked silly going up against Luke Skywalker.

    Skywalker fights gods now, not fallen Jedi manipulated by a chicken :p

    Of course I guess Krayt fought that god as well. Just not as many times as Luke :p
  3. Mechalich

    Mechalich Jedi Knight star 4

    Feb 2, 2010
    I do not think, for a second, that Jacen's choices and actions can be considered 'justified' in any way based on a convoluted set of things that may or may not have occurred and that he may or may not have foreseen. That's a bunch of temporal paradox BS and by the same status you could justify most of Palpatine's choices as 'Yuuzhan Vong Invasion Prep.'

    If anything Jacen is a formidable example in that trying to do good by being bad doesn't work, at least when the Force is involved - the road to Hell is paved with good intentions in the Star Wars galaxy too. There are several examples in LotF of Jacen/Caedus engaging in starkly villainous actions that had no connection to any future prophecy or his overall plan, starting with his torturing Ailyn Vel to death during interogation (that he got away with that bit, despite witnesses and the fact that it violates an ungodly number of law enforcement regulations is one of the early red flags that LotF hasn't got its head screwed on straight).
    windu4 and DarthJenari like this.
  4. Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken

    Unbowed.Unbent.Unbroken Jedi Padawan star 1

    Dec 27, 2012
    It seems to me that in Apocalypse they were pretty much equals...
  5. Plebeian

    Plebeian Jedi Padawan star 1

    Oct 31, 2012
    I got that impression too.
  6. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 5, 2012
    Jacen's actions delayed Krayt from rising, but they did not stop him.
    Jacen probably had good intentions, but I do not think the things he did made so much of a change.
    The only thing that did have an impact on Krayt was the destruction of Centerpoint Station and the release of Abeloth.
  7. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 17, 2011
    There's also the fact that he directly drew attention away from the One Sith with his actions, as said by Krayt himself.
    General Immodet likes this.
  8. Nobody145

    Nobody145 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Feb 9, 2007
    I don't really see Jacen doing much to slow down Krayt's schemes, as we don't really have any details on what Krayt's schemes are during the LotF and FotJ timeframe. Not that details or logic are ever the novels' strongpoints.

    In the Legacy comic, we get a somewhat detailed idea of Krayt's rise to power- instigate a war by sabotaging the Ossus Project and blaming the Jedi and GA, manipulate the Empire into declaring war on the GA and getting them to rely on Sith power to counter the GA's Jedi support, and then use the Imperial fleet, GA bureaucracy and his own One Sith to maintain order. And that's not even going into his Sith Troopers who probably are still very early in development.

    In LotF, does he have an army of Sith yet? Is there a strong enough united fleet to maintain order in the galaxy? Is he in a position to take over the galactic government? Well, considering a legal droid figured out how to take over the galactic government in five minutes, guess taking over the galaxy is pretty easy. No backups or safeguards to avoid another Palpatine-style takeover.

    Oh, I know, because the Lost Tribe used up the Jedi spice cartel excuse to take over, Krayt couldn't use, so it took him another few decades to come up with another excuse to blame everything on the Jedi and turn the galaxy on the Jedi. Well, make the Jedi even more hated and distrusted than they normally are.

    I don't like the "ends justify the means" message, honestly, and Abeloth's release does seem to outweigh any possible benefits from delaying Krayt. Sure the Throne of Balance vision changed from Krayt to Allana, but without any details, still don't see how Krayt's rule was delayed. Also, taking over the galaxy is really easy in the post-NJO novels, so its hard to see why Krayt took so long actually.

    I wasn't a big Jacen fan after NJO, but if they had just had him as a heroic Jedi, fine, but instead they had to ruin him in LotF, and even after his death, his mistakes just keep getting worse, and still not really any absolution for him. We barely even see any of his reaction to these revelations/retcons, since that chapter ended abruptly (but then most of the major plots end abruptly anyway).
  9. SaucySarlaac

    SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight star 1

    Nov 7, 2012
    Off topic, but what does Caedus mean?
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 8

    Sep 2, 2012
    No idea- I think it was a contest winner name.
  11. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2003
    Cockroach in Huttese.;)
  12. rumsmuggler

    rumsmuggler Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Aug 31, 2000
    I would have liked to see Krayt give Caedus a proper beatdown.
    SithStarSlayer likes this.
  13. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Master star 4

    Dec 2, 2009
    It's based off of the Latin verb "caedere", meaning "to kill, to murder, to slaughter". Whoever came up with it may have believed that it was the past participle of caedere, when in fact that would be "caesus".
  14. SaucySarlaac

    SaucySarlaac Jedi Knight star 1

    Nov 7, 2012

    Thank you very much. :)
  15. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Jul 8, 1999
    Jacen's actions could have all the good consequences in the world and they'd still be evil actions. The moral of the films isn't "it's okay that Anakin turned evil because he killed Palpatine eventually". [face_shame_on_you]
  16. Lazy Storm Trooper

    Lazy Storm Trooper Jedi Master star 4

    Sep 18, 2012
    The first one for me. He had to see something.