MORE MATRIX VS. STAR WARS

Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by jedibendubruce, Jan 4, 2003.

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  1. jedibendubruce Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2002
    star 3
    Not to harp on the same thing over & over but I had to throw in my 2 cents (although I value myself more than that). Star Wars, so many fans & no story drive? Well Mr. John Gaeta, let me quote Lucas' line that has now become a grand cliche' & copied by so many fans of film who have grown up inspired by Mr. Lucas to make films period- "A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing." And you can't tell me that Lucas after reviewing his notes from '76 on has forgotten the purpose of why he became an independent filmaker in the first place. It was obviously to tell stories the way he wanted to tell them with as little mainstream interference as possible. And we all know what mainstream means.You say they traded the idea of depth in filmaking? How much deeper does one have to go to continue a story started over 25 years ago; emboldened with heart; filled with a universe so expansive that it energizes the minds of scientists & teachers; & engages people (fans or not) to at least give the film creadence enough to argue about it? I've heard people pan & criticise the acting & character ability of Hayden as being too stiff & not driving the story. I saw the story being driven just fine.Has anyone stopped to think that Anakin's character was supposed to be stiff? After all the kid grew up as a slave with little outside influences & then was wisked away to the Jedi Temple to train consistently and become part of a Jedi life style that is also extremely constrained. How much social interaction could the boy have had? His acting drove the story wonderfully! And getting back to Mr. Gaeta (a.k.a. visual fx supervior of "The Matrix"), the Star Wars people have good reason to boast about the achievements they've made. Where would you be without the shoulders of ILM & Lucasfilm to ride on? Mr. Lucas' time, experience, & money has enabled you to bring "The Matrix" into reality. Noone else has given the filmmaker so many tools as Lucasfilm. They have brought the SFX effects realm into the 21'st century; have inspired growth in videogame technology; brought the sound experience to a new level; helped to give films like Toy Story life through the creation & transference of Pixar; & maybe most importantly provided a startup for the entire market with a religiously used tool called electronic editing ( remember Editdroid?). You should thank Lucas for basically giving you a job. He has the guts to use his films not only as great story vehicles but as experimentation so guys like you can continue to push the envelope. And what does shooting frames that are 97% digital have to do with soulessness? The soul of the movie is in the story, which I have just defended, not in the format. Mr. Lucas did this partially as an experiment to see if it was efficient & worthwhile, obviously without sacrificing story. Now, on a "basic level", let's move to the story of "The Matrix". A story which derives it's drive & meaning from a little old cookie baking woman known as "the Oracle". The Matrix's Yoda? And what about Morpheus' black robed Jedi racing out to defend truth & make known the dark side of the Empire known as "the matrix" which has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes and enslaved them. And let's not forget the Jedi who turns to the dark side wanting to feel nothing & be oblivious to the truth. Just as Star Wars has borrowed from so many myths & stories before it, so has "The Matrix" borrowed from Star Wars. The simple story of good vs. evil & the idea of choice permeates all good stories as it does all the Star Wars movies. "The Matrix" was so stylized in it's approach as to make the word cliche' seem redundant- pardon the pun.Maybe Episode I was not what everyone was expecting because Lucas was focused on using it as a large introduction vehicle to begin the entire Saga. Maybe Episode II's love story needed more development on Padme's character and her feelings/reactions towards Anakin and his inexperienced advancements (based on his life to that point). But the Matrix also holds its fair share of flaws in its story structur
  2. Latorski Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2002
    star 4
    Well put! I couldn't agree more.
  3. darthgetalife Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2002
    star 3
    Here goes the starwars fandom entering another dull controversy.

    Look what Gaetta said to Newsweek :

    ?I?ve heard the ?Star Wars? people boast about shooting frames that are 97 percent digital, and lo and behold, the movies are soulless,? says John Gaeta, visual-effects supervisor for all three ?Matrix? movies. ?They traded the whole idea of depth in filmmaking for this supertechnological hype. It helped us focus our own philosophy: the story drives everything.?

    AS long i'm concerned Gaeta was (1) dishing the digital filmmaking ? use of difital cameras instaed of celluloid ? and the excessive use of CGI that the PT ? not the original trilogy ? has ;)

    Nothing that haven't been heard before ?
  4. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I think The Matrix is one of the most souless movies I've ever seen. I like it for what it is: an action flick. Other than that, I don't see what's special about it. We see flashy CG effects and fight scenes. Great story.
  5. sithapprenticeofgab Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 23, 2002
    Matrix is a good movie, and I'm sure that I'll see the next 2 installments. I own the DVD as well. But, what's the ratio of Matrix vs star wars viewing in my house?

    Aproximatly 3720 to 1!

    or 50 to 1, whichever is more realistic.

    Matrix doesn't captivate the imagination or fix a hold on lives like star wars does. We'll see what Matrix is thought of in 15 years. My guess? 2 words-

    ROBOCOP

    Or, is that 1 word?
  6. jedibendubruce Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2002
    star 3
    Thankyou all for your replies. As I said, I enjoyed The Matrix for what it was & I'm sure I'll see the sequels. It's just rediculous to call Star Wars soulless & for Mr Gaeta to attack the way he does. I appreciate the replies.
  7. Mace Windy Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 1999
    star 6
    "The Matrix is overrated." - Mace Windy





    :cool: Mace Windy,
    new year, same level of windiness!
  8. JediMasterEllic_Kier Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 3
    didn't we just leave this party.....
    I seem to remember this.

    Matrix Visual Sup = wishing he had the toys ILM had!
  9. jedibendubruce Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 27, 2002
    star 3
    Yes we did Master Kier. I just had the intense need to voice my dislike for such comments. Thanks for the comments.
  10. Ret Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 1999
    star 6
    They were talking with that Neweek guy about the matrix sequels and something like it would make star wars look like it was made with crayons. Yeah, the last 45 minutes of AOTC really looked awful.


    :)
  11. smauldookie Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 5
    it's just people personaly opinions on the movies folks. don't get bent outta shape. starwars still rocks! :)
  12. Import_Jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    It's just rediculous to call Star Wars soulless & for Mr Gaeta to attack the way he does.


    He's not calling Star Wars soulless...just the prequels.
  13. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Hate to tell you this, but the prequels are Star Wars too, you know.

    Anyway, this is a good reply, but I don't think the Matrix guy has an open enough mind to accept any arguements.
  14. DarthMaul13 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1998
    star 4
    "He's not calling Star Wars soulless...just the prequels."


    What's the difference? ?[face_plain]
  15. winter_chili Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    calling the matrix souless is almost as bad as calling star wras souless (But not quite). The only good actor in the matrix was laurence. Keanu Reeves makes hayden look like the best actor in the history of the universe.

    the matrix has soul, it questions our realaity, blast my third grade spelling
  16. TinyObawan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2002
    star 3
    Matrix made me think too much....

    Star Wars lets me dream never too much.

    ;)
  17. JediMasterEllic_Kier Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 3
    Thought this was interesting.....wonder if the Matrix guy has seen this list!

    The 20 most mistake-filled movies

    Rank Film Number of mistakes
    1 The Matrix---------181
    2 The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring-----180
    3 Titanic-----------156
    4 Spider-Man---------144
    5 Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone------------138
    6 Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets---------134
    7 The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers----110
    8 Jurassic Park-----------108
    9 Terminator 2: Judgment Day---------106
    10 The Fast and the Furious----------102
    11 Die Another Day----------------100
    12 Gladiator-----------------99
    13 Pearl Harbor-------------93
    14 Star Wars--------------91
    15 Top Gun--------------89
    16 The Wizard of Oz---------86
    17 Independence Day---------85
    18 Saving Private Ryan--------85
    19 Attack of the Clones--------78
    20 Minority Report-------------77
  18. winter_chili Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    can you give us some examples of mistakes in the matrix
  19. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Casting Ted Theodore Logan as the lead?

    Sorry, cheap shot.
  20. JediMasterEllic_Kier Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 3
    Here's a link to a bunch....

    Matrix Mistakes

    Man, whoever noticed these has WAY too much time on there hands!
  21. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Didn't Ewan's braid account for about 75% of all TPM's mistakes? :D
  22. JediMasterEllic_Kier Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 3
    ^^I think your right....



    By the way Damon...I hope you don't mind my "sort of copied you" sig.
  23. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    Oh, no worries. It's not exactly the same, so it's not really copying, and it's good to see someone else feeling the same way. Glad I 'inspired' your sig, heh.
  24. Moriarte Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2001
    star 5
    I agree, lol, we've all been to this party before. To call SW soulless is a blatant disregard of, and entire dumb*** ignorance, of the entire meaning of the story.

    SW offers so much more, compared to Matrix, in terms of characters, storyline, and mythological themes that we can all identify with and understand. This is why SW has the majority of fans, comparatively.

    That man is speaking out of angry jealousy. His is sci-fi movie, while our is sci-fi fantasy. There is a big difference between the two, and his is of the lesser, ours the greater.

    It's obvious he can't see reality for what it is. Maybe he should take that red pill of his and shove it up his butt. 8-}

    Ciou-See the Sig
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