Senate Mormonism

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darkside_Spirit, Jan 12, 2002.

  1. Blue_10 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2001
    star 4
    You mean those statues of Mary and how they may not do this knowingly but they do none the less consider her a goddess?
  2. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    Whoa, people. Let's not get into a denomination bash here. The way you guys are talking this thread will probably get locked.
  3. Jorus_Kando Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2001
    star 4
    You mean those statues of Mary and how they may not do this knowingly but they do none the less consider her a goddess?

    We do not consider her a goddess. Brush up on what you now (or pretend to know) about Catholicism. Ignorance is not a flattering trait.
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Worship idols? We consider her a goddess?

    Why don't you try learning a bit about Catholicism before you go and make fools of yourself.
  5. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    JK, we must have some anti-Catholic detection device :D.
  6. LittleLadyVader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2000
    star 4
  7. GreedoCMZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    You can look through all my posts here and see if I ever made any anti-Catholic statement.
  8. MaidenLumpe VIP

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2000
    star 3
    ?[face_plain] didn't you guys get the memo? the pope sent it out last week. and since everything that the pope says is infalliable, it must be true! we (as cathoics) now worship mary, worship the saints as well, we're canibals, practice politheism in the trinity, of course, ect, ect, ect.

    //sigh...





    this is the mormon thread. if you have catholic questions (note the use of the word QUESTIONS, not UNEDUCATED ACCUSATIONS or MISGUIDED ASSUMPTIONS) take it to another thread.
  9. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Well, I'm from utah I have lived here all of my 26 years (except for 6 months in arizona)anywho. I'm probably the best example of someone on the other side of the fence of the LDS faith. I think the people who bash on thier religeon really need to realize that its not just mormons who are fanatics. I really don't see "many" difference's (from what I know) between Mormons and Other christian faiths. I think here in utah the mormon dominace definatly has a role in the government of the state. I'm pretty sure a high percentage of politicans are LDS. So laws in the state are "influenced" by their values and the values of the majority population.

    So for example the alchohol content in beer is 3.2% compared to 5.5% of the majority of other states. Wine, liquor, and higher alchohol beer is sold in state ran liquor stores. Not much is open on sundays, there are big beautiful churches pretty much every other block. The church from what I see is a very, not to say rich, but they are well... rich. Alot of cash flows from dedicated members which is fine.

    I could go on but, I think alot of Utahns bad taste against Mormons is their dominance over the state, which in all honesty was founded by the church, So almost every town in the state was founded by Mormon Settlers. Except for a few mining towns with a little more diversity(I grew up in one). So the dominance is nothing new to people who grew up here. I have my personal
    gripes with their way of life but, Most of it is probably the "personal" views of the people not the church. Another example is a friend of my family married a guy from a very big LDS family he is actually related to the head of the church. anyway his mother does not accept her because of the fact that they were not married in the Temple. Which is bad, but this is probably the same way for every other religeon judging people because of their beliefs or lack there of.

    My fathers family is dominant morman, I was never baptised, most of my friends are from mormon families, they don't practice but, they are.

    I guess what I should really say is its all about tolerance anyway you look at it.




  10. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I would hope that Mormons have some sort of say it what goes on in Utah. If we didn't, there would be some kind of problem with the political system. If you want to see how much power the Church doesn't have, just compare us with the Jews. Nothing against the Jews, but they have a awesome amount of power compared to the Mormons, even though there are more Mormons that Jews. While those people who live in Utah may not like some of the things that the PEOPLE in the Church have had influence over, Utah has little effect on the national scale. I make the point that the Church isn't the one that made any laws, it was people who followed that religion. While you might think it sucks that you have to go to Evanston to get fireworks and b33r, I think all the "neighbors" (aka non-mormons, we were told in the last general conference not to call people non-mormons because we arn't non-christains) should recognize, like you do, that if it wasn't for the Mormons, you most likely wouldn't be here.
  11. Blue_10 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2001
    star 4
    Ignorance is not necessarily bad is it? Sorry, next time I will be more careful in what I say. ;)
  12. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Oh, I personally don't think it "sucks" to have to drive two hours to get higher alchoholic beer,:) plus fireworks have nothing to do with religeon. Its because its so dry here. ;)

    I don't mind the religeous dominace here it actually keeps the state a nice place. Like I said before my family and friends have some connection to the church, I work with some of the coolest engineers and all of them are very good mormons, my neighbors are very help full kind people and I think it becasue of their faith. I mean I have my gripes but, thats my own personal opinions of "people" not the church, the older and wiser I got the petty differences were replaced by respect.

    Another thing a little of topic is the stigma that if your from Utah your LDS. I think its just ignorance of the whole world. If I go to vegas or when I was living in Phoenix, I show somebody my I.D. for something they automatically ask "Are you a Mormon?" Its weird, that the rest of the world thinks Utah is only a place for Mormons. Its a very Beautiful state. Where I grew up in a small mining town you were 30 minutes away from the San-rafael desert and 30 minutes away from pine filled mountains. So I'm actually kind of glad people that aren't mormon don't want to come here. :p :)

  13. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    DESERTJEDI...
    "So for example the alchohol content in beer is 3.2% compared to 5.5% of the majority of other states."

    Actually, I don't think that's the case. I took the Anheiser-Busch tour in St. Louis plant several times. The alcohol content varies from state-to-state, but the most common is the 3% IIRC. The higher content beers are in the minority. The majority of the South, for example is limited to the 3.2% beer.

    "Wine, liquor, and higher alchohol beer is sold in state ran liquor stores."

    The only difference is that most everywhere else, it's sold in state-regulated liquor stores. As the main jurisdiction of alcohol regulation is Federal anyway, this difference is hardly significant. We're talking about slightly less/more freedom in the operation.

    "Not much is open on sundays, there are big beautiful churches pretty much every other block."

    Have you ever been through Mississippi?

    :D Just an observation, but everything you've stated which applies to Utah also pretty much describes every single state in the "Bible Belt."
  14. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    Well I'm a sheltered person, I haven't been much anywhere outside of the western states so I guess I base this on colorado, wyoming, nevada and arizona's laws. I used the alchohol stuff as examples for the "influence" of the religeon on the state.

    From what I hear, it sounds like the southern states are worse for religeous dominance than utah.

    Its funny because like I said before how when you leave the state especially our neighbor states they assume if your from Utah your a mormon, but when I was living in arizona There were mormon churches everywhere. its weird.

    vegas and arizona have a very large Mormon population.
  15. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    DESERTJEDI...
    "From what I hear, it sounds like the southern states are worse for religeous dominance than utah."

    It depends. Certainly I'd agree on a cultural level it's probably about equal. However, I'd say more in the South subscribe to the notion of pure seperation of church and state.

    Religion is a dominant factor, but when it comes to politics for example - that's a whole different animal entirely. I've only passed through Utah, but it was my impression there is more church-state interaction.
  16. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
  17. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I have lived in both the bible belt and Utah. While the bible belt has many churches, they are all different kinds, and not spread out equally. In Utah, all the churches are the same and are everywhere. I don't know about church-state interaction, but I think if you have a unified religious majority there will of course be more interaction.

    When I moved from Utah, everyone I told where I was from assumed I was Mormon. Not that they were wrong. :p
  18. GreedoCMZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    Being born and raised a "California Mormon" I have been to Utah quite a few times and it is nice to go up there and breathe some clean air and see some great scenery. And go to Temple Square. And I know that Salt Lake is about 50% Mormon and some other areas get up to about 75% Mormon but I know it's not everyone in the state.
  19. LittleLadyVader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2000
    star 4
    I live in Utah, which is very difficult since I was raised mormon but converted to Catholicism. Nonmormons are treated like second class citizens here. I was almost fired once when my boss found out I wasn't mormon. There is no equality.
  20. GreedoCMZ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 1999
    star 4
    I'd like to chew your boss out. If you are a good employee he shouldn't care what your religion is. Fortunately, that type of stuff doesn't happen in California but it shouldn't happen anywhere.
  21. LittleLadyVader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2000
    star 4
    It happens alot here. Most of my neighbors won't talk to me and my whole extended family has disowned me. I'm an apostate.
  22. DESERTJEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2001
    star 4
    That sucks, i've seen that all to many times.

    BTW I live in good ol Utah too. :D
  23. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    That does suck. I have a aunt who was wild all her life, and was excommunicated. I generaly dislike that whole side of my family and think most of them are crazy, but my mom insists on being nice to them. I guess I should try and be more Christ like.
  24. LittleLadyVader Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 7, 2000
    star 4
    I would like to be excommunicated, but they won't take me or my son off the church roles, even though I have asked repeatedly. Thats why the numbers are so screwed up. They never take people off the roles even when they convert to a different religion. I know at least 20 people that are still considered members by the church even though they are now active Catholics.
  25. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    LittleLadyVader,

    If you wish your name to be removed from the records of the Church, you can write a letter to the bishop of the ward that currently has your records. They will then remove your name from those records. They will, however, keep a copy of those records archived in the event that you choose to rejoin the church. If you do rejoin the church later, your records would be reinstated and (from the record standpoint) it would be as if you had never left the church.

    I could add that the Catholic Church, especially in Latin America, does much the same thing. One of my companions on my mission was from Argentina and had been baptized into the Catholic Church when he was a baby. His family later was baptized into the Church, but his name was never removed from the records of the Catholic Church. In their eyes, he is only an inactive member.

    Also, with respect to the early comment about whether the LDS Church or the Catholic Church is correct, you can find it referenced in A Marvelous Work and a Wonder by LeGrand Richards. He quoted from Orson F. Whitney, who related his experience with a scholar from the Catholic Church.

    Referring to that scholar he said, "One day he said to me, 'You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholocism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it.The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we ahve the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, then there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitutde is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days.'" (Richards, 3).

    Honestly, the best way to find out if any of our teachings are true is to ask God. He has promised that he will answer our prayers, if we ask with faith that we will receive an answer from Him (see James 1:5-6). Study it out and ask him.

    Kimball Kinnison