Lit Mortis and the Gaping Plot Hole?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth Ridiculis, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Darth Ridiculis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2013
    star 1
    Maybe I missed something, and maybe this has been discussed before. But in Fate of the Jedi and Crucible, Luke discusses Anakin's Clone Wars mission to Mortis, based on a report given at the time, and his encounter with beings known as the Ones. However, I don't see how Anakin/Obi-Wan could have filed this report if their memories of the event were wiped upon leaving the Monolith. Anybody have any insight into this. Was this simply poorly researched on the part of Denning, or simply ignored in order to tie Abeloth into the overall Star Wars continuity?
  2. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    There is no real, proper justification for it other than "Something happened, offscreen". The same way that Luke apparently knows about Mortis because Yoda, in the short time he had to train Luke, seems to have sat him down for story time about it.
  3. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah i've been wondering about this one as well.
  4. Gorefiend Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2004
    star 5
    Mortis was not even wanted by Denning, apparently he was asked to include it.
  5. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    This kind of nonsense, especially Yoda supposedly telling Luke about Mortis during the training on Dagobah, is one of the numerous reason why I can't take the entire Mortis mess seriously. I already couldn't tolerate TCW, then the post-NJO is turned into something that abandons everything that is Star Wars to me, and to add insult to injury the Mortis stuff, which already irritates me in the first place, somehow gets brought into the post-NJO.
    Last edited by Zeta1127, Aug 5, 2013
    my kind of scum and GGrievous like this.
  6. Darth Ridiculis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2013
    star 1
    Which is ironic given that
    Crucible Spoiler (open)
    Mortis serves as the basis of his most recent novel, but then at the end it's all like, "Oh, never mind, this isn't actually Mortis."

    Lucasfilm pushed him to include it, and then seemingly tied his hands again.
  7. Dr. Steve Brule Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 4
    I don't believe for a moment that Denning was forced to include Mortis completely against his will. I think it fits his 'clever' MO too well.

    As for the OP, Anakin & Co didn't get their memories wiped at the end of the episode. The ending of the episode makes it pretty clear, given how confused they are that only a few moments have passed, and there's nothing to suggest in the narrative their memories got wiped, either.
  8. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka didn't forget what happened on Mortis. Anakin told Rex he wouldn't believe him when Rex asked where they'd been. Anakin had the future events he was shown wiped from his mind, but that's it.
    Lady_Misty and Summer Dreamer like this.
  9. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2010
    star 4
    Yeah. I can't buy the idea that Mortis' inclusion was done against Denning's will. If anything, that sounds like an author retreating from something unpopular.
  10. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Yeah, this. In fact, Dave Filoni said that Anakin, Ahsoka, and Obi-Wan would talk about it again, but "not to each other." That obviously didn't happen before the show was cancelled.
  11. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    I agree with the sentiment that using Mortis is the sort if thing Denning would choose to do. He is the writer that had Ghent find the Revenge of the Sith DVD in Artoo right after the movie came out, after all.
  12. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Tying things to previously established events is generally a good storytelling practice, but the way Denning does it just doesn't work for me. The way Lucas did it in the films is the only way that it really works for me.
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  13. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Yeah, I'm surprised he didn't have anyone find an AOTC DVD–after all, Leia found an old TPM novelization in Tatooine Ghost!
  14. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4

    It probably doesn't work because he does it right after a new event has happened for some reason that I really don't know. Maybe to make his stories seem more legitimate or official? He's also very heavy handed in his approach.
    Zeta1127 likes this.
  15. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I haven't actually read either Tatooine Ghost, DNT, or Apocaplypse, but that's exactly the impression I got from hearing about him doing that in these stories.
  16. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    He either misunderstands what he's writing about or intentionally misrepresents it more often than not.
  17. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I should have remembered that Vergere first appeared in Rogue Planet and AoC and that Traitor may have went against how Denning portrayed and envisioned her in SbS.
    Last edited by Zeta1127, Aug 5, 2013
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  18. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    As a Jedi hiding among the Yuuzhan Vong? Vergere first appeared in Rogue Planet.
  19. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I didn't realize Rogue Planet was her first appearance, I only read the NJO and Rogue Planet just a few years ago, so I wouldn't necessarily know the exact publishing order and can't remember when I read Rogue Planet in relation to the NJO, other than I recognized the name Vergere in Rogue Planet.
  20. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    If Denning is taking exception to her depiction in Traitor as not fitting "his" depiction in SbS, it sounds to me like it's a bigger issue than we thought, because the character of Vergere was created by Jim Luceno during the planning of the series to be an Old Republic Jedi that mentors Jacen so he can complete his hero's journey and be a, you know, hero. It is bad enough they sullied that with the retcons, but if Denning was going against the game plan when he was writing a NJO novel, that's pretty bad. It would fit in with his history of using other people's work though.
    JoinTheSchwarz and Zeta1127 like this.
  21. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Wasn't the original plan for Anakin rather than Jacen to be the hero- until Lucas nixed that?
    Lady_Misty likes this.
  22. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    I wouldn't be shocked if that was the case, especially after I heard about Denning's compendium on Vergere.
  23. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 5
    Yes, during planning. There was also a prophecy about the hero that was removed when Jacen was made the hero.
  24. Darth Ridiculis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2013
    star 1
    I guess that's what I missed. I haven't watched the full arc in a while.
  25. Darth Ridiculis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2013
    star 1
    I think an Anakin vs. Darth Caedus storyline would've made for much better material then if they still went the dark Jacen route had Anakin survived the NJO.