Clone Wars Mortis / The Ones Vs. The Five Priestesses / Their Planet

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by The Shadow Collective, Mar 14, 2014.

  1. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2013
    What is the difference between the two planets / their inhabitants. Mortis is a conduit of the force and home to a family of force-beings, and the other planet was supposedly the origin of the midi-chlorians / the force? And home to a five immortal force-beings.
    I realize the Ones are still tangible mortal beings, whereas the priestesses were immortal, formless and already at one with the force, but they are both "force beings" with a connection to the force beyond the norm by regular mortal beings.
    Also on another note, these five beings were already existing within the force itself and had achieved the ability to retain their identity after death, and dwelled on the life giving planet, but how did they achieve that, i'm assuming someone/thing must have taught them since they say they had achieved this power. And how was Qui-Gon able to learn this after dying, when Yoda had to physically travel to a real physical location to learn?
  2. Circular Logic SWTV Interview Host

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    Mortis appears to be in a different plane of reality from the rest of the galaxy, although it's not entirely clear. Given that the Force was able to guide Yoda to the Force-planet hidden deep within a gaseous nebula, I'd say this planet does exist within the GFFA. In fact, I believe it's one of the most ancient worlds in the galaxy, since ostensibly this is where the midi-chlorians originate, and the ability for life to spring forth there is quite tangible; you see the Priestess of Serenity cause a plant to sprout simply by setting foot on the ground.

    As to any explanation to the nature of these worlds, I only have this, a popular meme in Lit:
    [IMG]

    I figured Qui-Gon might actually have gone through some of Yoda's trials himself; I am certain he's been to the Dark Side Cave on Dagobah, since in the micro-series Yoda sees him take a young Anakin there in a vision, and in Voices he leads Yoda there to face a vision of the future. It's less clear whether he'd been to the same Force-world that Yoda went to in Destiny, but I think it's logical to conclude that, since he implies that he's faced trials but failed to pass the test of the Priestesses completely, which is why he couldn't appear in ghost form to Yoda, and was only a disembodied voice. Although he possesses pretty much all the other attributes of a Force ghost, and even did something the Force ghosts of the movies never did: use the Force to manipulate reality, as evidenced by his ability to levitate Yoda and blow out the candles in Yoda's meditation chamber. Qui-Gon's intimate connection to the Living Force was always something that might have made him uniquely qualified to be the first Jedi to rediscover the ancient secret of retaining one's identity after death.

    In fact, one can interpret the scene in TPM where Qui-Gon is meditating between the ray shields in the Theed reactor as him preparing himself for the possibility that he would not survive his duel with Darth Maul, and ensuring that he would pass on to the Force and retain some semblance of his identity after death.
    Last edited by Circular Logic, Mar 14, 2014
  3. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Ha, this guys expression and hair and everything always cracks me up when i see it, you can totally see the conviction in whatever he is saying lol.

    These are really good points, i hadn't considered his connection to the Living Force being a contributing factor.

    Also i had considered Mortis being in another plane, but I included it still in the comparison regardless due to it having a stronger connection to the force than almost anywhere else, and due to the possible connection to the (as meme'd) Celestials which the Force Using One's may or may not be linked to. And the fact that the One's are still aware of what is transpiring in the Galaxy at large. Plus we don't know whether Mortis was always encased within the Monolith, only that the family didn't always reside there. I am of course, also basing my facts on the Fate Of The Jedi novels, so whether you agree depends on whether you consider them canon.

    Damn this all really makes me wish they would release some kind of novel or graphic novel or something about the Celestials and their time, so we could have to more concrete knowledge on them.
  4. The Shadow Emperor Force Ghost

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    Sep 29, 2012
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    I believe that Mortis is the origin of the Cosmic Force while the Midi-chlorian homeworld is the origin of the Living Force.

    Wonder what would happen if one of them were blown up, heh...
  5. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

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    Mar 21, 2013
    Interesting theory, haha yeah i see what you mean, could one exist without the other?!
  6. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Apr 29, 2011
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    That guy from Ancient Aliens is the man. I can't get enough of that show.

    I think @Circular Logic basically nailed the answer to the question from @The Shadow Collective as much as it can be affirmatively answered based on what we know for sure from the episodes. Mortis exists only in another temporal dimension, whereas the planet of the priestesses was in the same dimension as the usual GFFA.
    Circular Logic likes this.
  7. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 28, 2003
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    I think the planet in the Yoda arc was said to be one such planet from which life arose, meaning there are others.

    Mortis could have been another, but Father explicitly states that he withdrew from the temporal world with his children to prevent them from being a threat. So, it exists on another plane of existence. Qui-Gon (if that is Qui-Gon, that wasn't exactly confirmed, iirc) does tell Obi-Wan however that Mortis is a conduit for the Force, and that what happens there does have repercussions in temporal realm, since when the Force becomes imbalanced in favor of the Dark Side, Father warns that the Sith will thus become stronger in the temporal realm because of it.

    If that is indeed Qui-Gon, then perhaps it's ability to act as a conduit for the Force is what allows Qui-Gon to manifest physically and speak to Anakin and Obi-Wan, while in the temporal realm, he never manifested his physical appearance after death and never spoke to Obi-Wan or Anakin. Though Qui-Gon seems very much aware of what's going on in the galaxy in how he talks to Yoda in TCW. And in AOTC, his spirit seemed aware of the Tusken slaughter. But on Mortis, he didn't even seem aware that Obi-Wan took Anakin as his apprentice, which makes me question if that was just an illusion and not really him - though that's one hell of a coincidence.

    The planet in the Yoda arc was said to be one planet from where life arose and from which midichlorians arise.

    Mortis existed on another plane and seemed to channel the Force in an particular way such that if the Force tipped out of balance on Mortis, it would tip out of balance in the temporal realm as well. Though at one point Obi-Wan tells Anakin that the planet IS the Force, and Filoni had mentioned that the arc was very much like the cave on Dagobah. So it's also possible that everything was just a physical metaphor and shared vision and that Mortis isn't "real."
  8. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2013
    So this suggests that it was all one big, Force Illusion? Interesting possibility but to what purpose? If they didn't really go to a physical place and the Ones were merely a representation of the balance of the Force, what would be the point, what would it have showed them? That the force was out of balance and the Dark Side was stronger / gaining strength? They already know this. Not that i'm actually discounting what Filoni said, just doesn't make sense to me.
  9. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    IMO, it makes about as much sense as some guy believing the prophecy to be regarding someone keeping his two unruly children under control.

    If the children are only manifestations representing the dual nature of the Force, then the children are metaphors for the Force's two sides, that Anakin has to keep in balance. Not literal children that have to be controlled by a parental figure.

    As with Luke in the cave on Dagobah or Yoda on the Sages' planet (and Korriban), a place sufficiently strong in the Force can lead to visions. The group may have merely stumbled into an area of space where they collectively had a vision that represented the Force to them in a tangible manner that they could process. Mortis represented the Force; Father balance; and his two children the Dark and Light sides of the Force.

    And thus it could be that none of it was "real" in the sense that Son was never going to get into the temporal realm and wreck havoc and become Emperor or anything like that. This could merely represent the threat of Anakin's corruption. That the Son is not some physical being, merely a physical manifestation in a vivid vision representing the Dark Side, and his "escape" from Mortis, might merely translate to the corruption of Anakin.

    Son and Daughter might not even represent the Force entirely. That whole vision might just be more an adventure into Anakin's subconsciousness with Son and Daughter pretty much representing the little devil and angel on Anakin's shoulders. Father is the voice of reason that urges Anakin towards his destiny of realizing that he is the Chosen One. But Anakin has doubts, which gives strength to his Dark Side. And that as his Dark Side grows, the Sith gain power (as they ultimately do in ROTS, when he falls). Thus Anakin must fight Son (his Dark Side) to restore balance through selfless sacrifice - which Father represents, foreshadowing the role he ultimately plays in ROTJ, when he is redeemed.

    So it might not just be like the cave on Dagobah where Luke sees a very personal vision by himself. But instead it might be like Anakin having such a vision, but having Ahsoka and Obi-Wan accompany him into this dream realm.

    None of this is confirmed anywhere and is merely my own speculation.

    That it might be more like the film The Cell, in which the trio of heroes enter a dream world that is unknowingly created by Anakin, representing metaphysical concepts as mythological beings.
  10. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2013
    This does seem plausible, however how do you explain Anakin actually turning to the dark side, but then having his memory erased by the Father?

    Also as i mentioned in another thread, if you, like me still believe the many EU novels are canon, then there were multiple references to Mortis. In Crucible, the trio go to a place that may or may not be the Mortis Monolith, and in the Fate of the Jedi series, the main villain Abeloth appears to be the at one time Mother to the Force One's family. Suggesting they really exist and Mortis is therefore a real place.

    As you said, all merely speculation.
  11. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

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    Nov 28, 2000
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    Yeah, the face that they were allowed to give backstories for the Ones in FOTJ and that Filoni was consulted gives credence to the belief that the Mortis stuff was all very much real.
  12. DanielUK Force Ghost

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    Nov 1, 2012
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    I shall assume the Priestesses planet is linked to the theory of panspermia; it doesn't not necessarily mean life started via one source, but panspermia is the theory of how life is distributed across the universe. Like the Q from Star Trek, the Priestesses seem to not only be the guardians of life and the universe, but have god like knowledge of the past, present and future. In other words, the Priestesses are not bound by the time. And it is implied they are shaping events.

    Mortis, however, is what I'd describe as the spirit world or what the ancients refereed to as the aether (etheric plane). If you subscribe to mythology, spiritualism and the occult, then you accept the concept of different planes of existence. The Ones are depicted as each representing the light side (Daughter), dark side (Son) and balance (Father) and have a direct effect on the Force itself. Unlike the Priestesses, the Ones require outside influence to alter the course of the galaxy - the Son needed Anakin to return to the physical world; he could not do it himself.

    Priestesses = gods
    The Ones = astral beings
  13. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2013

    Though i do like this possibility, the one thing i have against it is that, after just rewatching the episodes, i noticed when Yoda asks the Preistess to remove her mask to look upon her face, after showing that they are disembodied, Yoda asks are they already dead, to which she responds "Yes, we have already achieved what you seek". This leads me to conclude that whereas a God would likely be an immortal being, likely connected to the force / origins of the universe, that would likely already be able to communicate through the force / be omnipresent; these beings seem to imply that they were once alive and mortal beings as they admit to having died, and when they say they have "achieved" what he seeks, it seems to me like they are saying that they too have learned the power that Yoda now wants, implying they were taught by others before.
  14. DarthJenari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2011
    star 4
    Question for all: It was stated that Qui-Gon learned how to achieve the Force Ghost state from a Shaman of the Whills. And for a long time the Whills have been the ones credited as discovering and teaching that state to others. Qui-Gon is the one who sent Yoda on his journey to meet and "train' under the Priestesses, and the general idea seems to be that at some point he'd met with them before his death but had never completed his training, but that they are the ones who trained him. So then, are the Priestesses the Whills?
    Iron_lord likes this.
  15. darklordoftech Chosen One

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    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    The Ones aren't any more real than Luke-faced Vader (FOTJ be damned). The Priestesses are 100% real.
    Last edited by darklordoftech, Mar 21, 2014
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  16. The Shadow Emperor Force Ghost

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    Sep 29, 2012
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    How did nonexistent beings send out a Jedi distress code?
  17. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

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    Jun 30, 2003
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    According to Dave Filoni on his interview for Rebel Force Radio, he himself does not certainly know whether the Priestesses are the Whills or not, though he found himself wondering that himself during the writing process; apparently he never pressed Lucas for confirmation either way, though he himself was rather comfortable with the idea. So the official stance - at present - seems to be that the Priestesses neither are, nor are not, the Whills, but it has not been ruled out and there is still every possibility for them to retroactively become considered the Whills - should they choose to develop them further.

    But here's a couple tidbits that are new: Filoni considered these Priestesses to be both one individual broken into seperate aspects AND separate individuals (I will go back to the interview and attempt to transcribe this portion of it this weekend, because I'm not doing the idea justice and I may even be slightly misinterpreting it - it was several hours ago that I heard it - so I'll need to go back, check, and then include his exact words here.

    The second tidbit, however, I remember quite clearly: Filoni stated there was a little more reference to Mortis in the original script: the Priestesses apparently DO know about the Ones and even refer to the Father at some point, speaking lines to the effect that She/They consider the Father to have a very limited view of the Force (Yikes! Apparently even the Ones are subject to Lucas' oft-repeated belief, in regards to a higher power, that we're all just seeing different parts of the same elephant). Again, I'll try to get the exact wording for you guys this weekend at some point. But I hope this contributes to the conversation here!
  18. Praenomen Cognomen Force Ghost

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    Mar 24, 2013
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    It makes sense to me that they were an ancient Force-adept cult, and like many non-Jedi Force traditions, they focused on one particular power. The Zeison-Sha focused on telekinesis, the Fallanassi focused on trances and illusions, and in this case, the priestesses---perhaps long-dead Whills---focused on preserving their essences. It makes sense that a cult would pursue that and that alone, since becoming one with the Force seems to be a free pass to all sorts of other knowledge.
    Contessa likes this.
  19. Vthuil Force Ghost

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    Jan 3, 2013
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    I'm 100% on board with this idea (and its previous manifestations in the EU). If we're going to drop the idea of the Jedi having a true understanding of the Force that needs no improvement - and that ship has sailed - then I think it's more interesting if no one is ever really able to grasp the big picture.
  20. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Ramblings...

    The planet of the five priestesses is no ordinary nebula. As a space geek about had a nerdgasm the first time I saw it.

    I'm convinced that per the color, the way the gas seems to be coming off a center point, and because there are no jets shooting off the poles its supposed to be a Wolf-Rayet star. That's kinda interesting for the birthplace of all life because a Wolf-Rayet star is a giant star that has entered going supernova and it throwing its material off into space. If its not large enough to become a blackhole then this star will eventually create a planetary nebula, a place from which new stars and solar systems are born. Its very neat symbolism although none is probably intended and someone who designed it probably though it would look cool. But its natural and Motis is not.

    Were the priestesses originally one person that split into many based on those traits are they all different beings?

    By contrast Mortis was a black square, like some weird deformed brown dwarf or something. Super natural. Maybe it was a time warp. I had thought maybe it had been like 'The Wardrobe'. They went into it, had this strange adventure but little time passed outside of it. It was significant enough Anakin told Yoda and he may have had an idea what Mortis is.
    Last edited by Seerow, Mar 21, 2014
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  21. DarthJenari Force Ghost

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    Dec 17, 2011
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    If the Priestesses were/are the Whills, them thinking that about Father makes perfect sense to me. Again being the source of the Force Ghost abilitiy they would've taken the idea of becoming one with the Force to a whole new level. And considering the Journal of the Whills that not only contained the prophecy of Anakin, but a good portion of the galaxy's history, it's always seemed to me as if they were one of the most ancient orders around, if not perhaps one of the first groups to begin studying and using the Force.

    The Father (For all the other problems I had with Mortis) definitely came off as very strict and set in his ways on what he believed to be right.
  22. The Shadow Collective Jedi Master

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    Mar 21, 2013

    It sure does, please do, this sounds very interesting.
  23. EternalHero Jedi Grand Master

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    Feb 17, 2014
    star 2
    There is more in the GFFA than is imagined in most fan's philosophy.
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  24. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

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    Okey-doke. This is from the Rebel Force Radio interview, 21 March 2014, edited only to get rid of "uhs," "ers," and "you knows."

    JM: Everyone's wondering: are they the Whills?
    DF: That's an interesting question. I would say no to that, only because that never came up when we were talking with George. I don't think that's impossible; it had crossed my mind, when we were making it, that that's a possibility. So I think that's a fair answer. The way I see that character, I think you could talk about that character as a singular or you can talk about them as a plural. [Filoni then briefly praises Jaime King for her portrayal of the character/s] I'll give you another little tidbit here before I go, which is: there were some lines that directly connected to Mortis in this arc, that I ended up having to cut because they were sidebars to the main plot of Yoda, but at one point the Priestesses discuss the Father on Mortis, and basically consider him very narrow in his view of the Force compared to what they are, and I would say that that's very true. They are basically, to me, one being, whose consciousness is divided into five separate apparitions, and five different types of archetype; over the years her separation of body and soul from the Force had become these kind of archetype-faces within the Force that can speak to you from beyond. That's a little bit of insight into what the Priestesses are.
  25. Togruta Force Ghost

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    Oct 30, 2010
    star 4
    I wish the priestesses were called something else.. just "spirits" would suffice.