Clone Wars Mother Talzin (Season 6)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by DarthTalgus, Jan 12, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cwustudent Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2011
    star 4
    @TaradosGon
    Did you ever see Heroes? Sylar was told that he was a long-lost Petrelli brother, when it wasn't actually true. According to the literature, IIRC, Savage is Maul's older brother. I'm not entirely convinced they are brothers and came from the same mother, Kycina. Maybe Talzin just pegged Savage as a dope, knowing it would be easier to manipulate Savage if he believed in his long-lost brother who just happens to have the keys to the power Savage sought. Perhaps, perhaps not; maybe it depends on Talzin's motive for antagonizing Dooku. I think its been noted here, that Talzin seemed to be avoiding Maul. Perhaps she fears him, but realizes he might be the one capable of destroying Dooku and erasing her debt to him. Maybe that's just it - she doesn't want to be indebted to a man?
  2. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    It all being personal between Dooku and Talzin makes the most sense to me as a means to how they can reconcile everything. The most difficult tidbit to reconcile would be what the point of bringing Maul back was IF Maul is killed this season and never crosses paths with Dooku. Though I really don't think he'll die.
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  3. DavidIX Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    I have no idea what talzins motives are. But one thing is for sure, she had two prominent beings at her disposal and she let both of them go. She has to be plotting something deep. It can't just be as simple as hoping and praying Savage and Maul cross paths with Dooku and indirectly do her a favor by killing the good count.

    I wonder what this witch is plotting..
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  4. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    We shall see next season hopefully
  5. Darth JSlom Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Idk about everyone else but for me it would be awesome if talzin was somehow connected with abeloth from the eu. Or Mortis somehow. We are suppose to be hearing more about both. Tying it together somehow would let them dedicate more time to concentrate on new ideas for episodes
  6. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Before Abeloth, I was certain Mother Talzin was the Mother. The missing One.

    Whatever she wants, she was willing to let her entire clan die to make it happen.
  7. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    That would be interesting, but if she was the Mother, I doubt she would be wasting her time on Dathomir.
  8. Original Oatmeal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    I want to see a twenty-way fight between Sidious, Maul, savage, Mother Talzin, the Father, the Son, the Sister, Anakin, Kenobi, Sidious, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Night Sisters, Yoda, Dooku, Grevious, good jedi, and evil sith and other monsters. I want to see crazy fights with everybody against everybody. I want the audience to not know who is fighting who. Like a three way fight. Or a five way fight. Where people are undecided who to fight and who to be allied with. It reminds me of some of the mess from the films of the Pirates of the Carribeans. I like it when I have no idea what is going on. I do not like boring fights that are predictable.

    In the cartoon Clone Wars, I do not want to see the deaths of Maul, Talzin, Ahsoka, Ventress.

    Maybe Anakin dies but Sidious or Talzin resurrects Anakin.

    Maybe Dooku dies but Talzin or Sidious resurrects Dooku.

    Which would explain why Dooku was kind of fine with his head being cut off by Anakin in ROTS.
    Last edited by Original Oatmeal, Jan 30, 2013
  9. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Dooku wasn't fine with being decapitated. He was shocked that Sidious threw him under the bus.
    Sitara likes this.
  10. Original Oatmeal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    Dooku should have used force lighting or something and ran away.
  11. Merric Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 1
    That would have been interesting to see Dooku use force lightning without hands. lol

    but in all seriousness I don't understand why Dooku didn't just say something like "Anakin! Don't listen to him! He's the sith lord that the jedi are after!" Considering Dooku was going to die anyways why not reveal the truth to Anakin?
    Last edited by Merric, Jan 30, 2013
  12. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Apparently he was originally supposed to plead Sidious for mercy, but then Christopher Lee spoke with Lucas and decided that it felt out of character for him to beg. Though that decision to have him NOT beg seems out of character to me, considering the Sith are supposed to be cowards that will do anything to cling to life desperately, and yet Dooku just sits there awkwardly.
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  13. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    Count Dooku is too proud to beg imo.
  14. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Indeed. Last thoughts?


    "Treachery is the way of the Sith."
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Jan 30, 2013
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  15. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
  16. DavidIX Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 1
    Plot necesity.

    If Dooku was smart he would of betrayed Sidious long ago and ruined his plans. He could of just sent a hidden message to the Jedi revealing Palpatines true identity.
    Last edited by DavidIX, Jan 30, 2013
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  17. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    I really wish that if TCW leads into ROTS that they'll retcon some of the details surrounding the abduction of Palpatine.

    For instance we keep hearing about Sith treachery and how they'll betray one another, but every betrayal on screen never pans out:

    Vader wants to betray Sidious and become the new Emperor - doesn't pan out because Luke refuses to join him.
    Dooku wants to betray Sidious - doesn't pan out because Obi-Wan won't join him
    Dooku wants to betray Sidious again - doesn't pan out because Savage was being mind controlled and broke free

    I'd like to see Dooku actually try to take Sidious out. Sidious is supposedly going to have to work for his victory (per Filoni), but this has yet to be shown. He gives Dooku an army, huge sums of wealth, and a band of loyal followers and yet there doesn't seem to be any kind of danger of Dooku rebelling, since all of Dooku's plans turn out to be self-defeating without Sidious having to worry at all.

    I'd like for the war to turn into a real war if even for a short time. Rather than Sidious handling Maul himself, I would have saved such a confrontation for Dooku getting uppity and Sidious personally putting Dooku in his place and making Dooku submit again.

    I mentioned my desire to see the capture of Palpatine portrayed as an Akechi Mitsuhide style betrayal of Oda Nobunaga at Honnoji*

    *A general of a powerful Japanese warlord sees an opportunity in which his lord is poorly defended and attacks his lord

    For instance, have the Outer Rim Sieges begin, the Republic forces are mostly concentrated in the Outer Rim and Dooku sees an opportunity to launch an attack on his master while he is poorly defended.

    Or at the very least, if no betrayal is to occur, I'd wish that the plan to capture Palpatine and turn Anakin would be DOOKU'S IDEA. He just seems like a gullible idiot if Sidious lays a trap for Anakin and tells Dooku that if he loses he'll be pardoned and spared, etc. It's another thing if the trap is Dooku's idea that Sidious exploits unexpectedly and betrays Dooku. Because then Dooku will feel in control and the betrayal will catch him off guard. If it's Palpatine's plan, then Dooku is just a moron for going along with it. He's the only one with anything to lose, and it should be pretty damn apparent that he's trying to turn Anakin by that point - and since there can only be two, it should be apparent to Dooku that he's expendable.
    cwustudent and Original Oatmeal like this.
  18. Original Oatmeal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1

    Agreed. Cartoon Clone Wars should show the details behind the abduction of Sidious and other crucial things.
  19. Valairy Scot Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    What I found interesting in a rewatch (and darn, I forgot a lot of the thoughts I had then) is that Talzin sent Ventress +2 to "kill" Dooku yet also sent Savage to Dooku to train as his "apprentice." Did she expect Ventress +2 to succeed or to fail? To scare Dooku into accepting Savage?
  20. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Well, she presumably knew that Savage would betray all of them and come back to Dathomir - as she pops the Maul revelation on him. So she expected Ventress +2 to fail.
  21. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Ugh. Her plan is the equivalent of a Rube Goldberg Machine at that point.

    I hate all powerful villains. I'm hoping her plan turns out to be more direct and simple than a convoluted indirect way to get Savage to come to her for help. How would she have known that Asajj would be betrayed by Dooku in the first place? That's pretty much the first domino to fall to kick off this very roundabout plan, if the whole thing is just to acquire Maul.

    The Nightsisters aren't really shown to have ships in TCW so far as I can remember. Part of me thought that perhaps they are isolationists to the point that they don't even have a means to leave (but then how did Savage leave?), in which case Talzin had to wait for Asajj to come to her. But even if that's the case, why not just send Asajj?

    Have Talzin say, "hey, I know of someone that can help you, he's living in the Outer Rim, take this necklace and go find him."

    Instead Maul was like the backup plan to a backup plan, and even when she revives him, she immediately vanishes and seems like she was consciously making an effort to avoid him.
  22. ImNotAStarWarsFanboy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2011
    star 5
    I really don't think she has a plan. Obviously out of universe she serves as the go-to plot device for churning out more bad guys to throw at the Jedis' lightsabers.

    In universe? I think she does it for the lulz. I doubt the writers have anything grandiose planned for her. She's just "lol magicz".
    Last edited by ImNotAStarWarsFanboy, Jan 30, 2013
  23. Original Oatmeal Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2013
    star 1
    Doesn't Talzin just like to help her "Sister" Ventress and her "Brother" Savage? Maybe Talzin is just being nice and maybe Talzin was married to Dooku. Maybe Dooku left the Jedi Order and was with her. Maybe Sidious took Dooku from Talzin.
  24. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Filoni has mentioned that we will learn more about Talzin, that she's very important, and that we'll find out why she's so interested in Maul. Which is why I suspect Maul will survive this season, so that Talzin will be able to use him next season.

    I'm not so sure that they really had a road map planned out for Talzin when they first started developing her character in the Nightsisters arc, considering the writers themselves didn't know that Maul was going to be brought back at the time. But from what Filoni has said, I get the impression that they are going to try and spin things to make it look like she had a plan all along (after the fact).
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Jan 30, 2013
    Original Oatmeal likes this.
  25. ArrogantJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 11, 2008
    star 2
    Personally, I see Mother Talzin's end on the TCW with a final confrontation with Dooku and/or Sidious. She's clearly very powerful and by resurrecting Maul and creating Savage she's technically thrown a spanner in the works for Sidious who would be curious as to who was able to weild such power to bring Maul back while also making attempts on Dooku's life.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.