Speculation Mr. Plinkett's review of Episode VII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Bib Fartuna, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    People, including Star Wars fans, like the Redlettermedia videos judging by the millions of views and umpteen thousands thumbs up opposed to the minimal thumbs down. Anyhow, the reviews of Star Wars prequels in no way rely, I said rely, on sexism but the character is suppose to be a scoundrel, a scum bag, a sort of loser. It's what makes the reviews watchable - in reality he's not saying much that many other people have said in criticizing Star Wars prequels. They were a let down to a lot of fans and movie goers and now the problem is fixed as Lucas isn't writing/directing (basically largely in control of every aspect of the film) and Rick McCallum isn't producing (you know, the guy who admitted the prequels were a let down).

    http://blog.moviefone.com/2006/03/15/star-wars-boss-rick-mccallum-admits-prequels-were-unsatisfying/
    Last edited by Darth kRud, Jan 26, 2013
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  2. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I don't have a grotesque disrespect for people who disagree with me. RLM never said that women were inferior to men. And claiming that women and men don't act a certain way at certain times is kind of silly. He makes good points about how a woman might not want to hear her romantic partner needlessly complain about his boss. All the time. Especially when she's trying to talk about something she finds important and relevant. (And Padme was talking about something important and relevant before Anakin started complaining about his master). He's right that yes, guys at 19 do tend to think with their pants. I'm 19 and I do spend an awful lot of time trying to chat up hot girls (and normally failing miserably). Now, do I think that's all 19 year guys do? No, clearly not and Mr. Plinkett doesn't either. Because Mr. Plinkett is a character created to drive a point home. Stolaska created Mr. Plinkett to say that the only guy who would bother to do a 90 minute review of a prequel trilogy nearly a decade after they came out would have to be a sexist serial killer who lives in his basement and makes pizza rolls. In his normal reviews he doesn't make what you consider to be sexist comments because he doesn't have to make his point. But as Mr. Plinkett he does because the character Mr. Plinkett is supposed to be a scumbag.

    I take it back. I honestly don't see why you're offended because everytime I watch that scene where he deconstructs Anakin and Padme's relationship he makes valid points. Why would Padme want to murder a genocidal maniac who spends most of his time complaining about his master and the other time giving Padme uncomfortable looks and awkward compliments? It's a good question that nobody has answered yet.
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  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    LOL, you're citing a blog and "thumbs up/thumbs down" ratings on YouTube as an example of "math" or "science"? [face_laugh]

    When you have an objective, scientific poll of most or all people who have actually watched the prequels, get back to me.

    Resorting to stereotypes as Stoklasa does is a tool of lazy idiots who are incapable of viewing people without categorizing them all into convenient boxes.

    And the fact is that unless all women and all 19-year-old men fit into his moronic stereotype, it is rendered false.

    And if he actually had an argument, he could do better than "this doesn't work because 'no' woman or 'no' 19-year-old man acts like that." If he wanted to say that he personally wouldn't behave that way and therefore the story didn't work for him, his argument would be valid. When he tries to put people into boxes like some sort of idiot and claims to speak for everyone like the arrogant ******* that he is, his argument falls flat.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jan 26, 2013
  4. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    It kind of is a poll though. The thumbs up/thumbs down ratings on Youtube measure how many people like or dislike something. That is the definition of a poll. And this poll tells me that thousands of people thought that his reviews were funny and interesting. Not only these anonymous internet faces but also several people who are considered to be intelligent and valued members of the film industry. JJ Abrams being one of them.

    I don't know how many times I have to say that he wasn't completely serious while making these stereotypes and was mainly joking. Of course he doesn't think all women and men think that. I don't even believe he said that all women and men think like that. He's the one that claimed that guys my age only care about boobs which I know isn't true. Does that mean I think he's being stereotypical and offensive?
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  5. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Don't like Plinkett? Don't watch him. Problem solved.
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  6. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    I was being funny, hence the wink happy face thing. You didn't understand the humor so I had to explain it in another post and in doing so I had to use a more serious tone which gave you the impression I meant the original post to be serious. Nice attempt to be snarky though. I'm the king of snark and backhanded insults so.... you may not want to explore that region of human behavior with me. What I did post that was meant to be taken seriously was teh fact even the producer knew the prequels were a let down and although Lucas may not publicly admit it was a factor in his decision to step down. I love how people, presumably people like you, like to think people, people like me, who criticize the prequels are some loud minority of "Lucas Bashers". The films simply and objectively weren't well received. I dont need thumbs up on a youtube video to illustrate this fact I can fill this thread with countless reviews from professionals and fans alike and can provide my own in detail account of why, in my opinion, the prequels were a let down. Those of us who think Lucas could have done much better with the Vader back story don't need Redletter media to speak for us.
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  7. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I suppose you could say arguing with a Plinkett fan is just about as pointless as arguing with a PT fan. I do think that we're all beating a dead tauntaun horse here.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm not going to tell you what you think. I will say that if you are OK with him stereotyping people in your demographic, that's your business. It doesn't make you "correct" and me "wrong." But telling me that he was "just joking" doesn't make me less offended when he tries to tell me what I, as a woman, am supposed to like or dislike.

    And YouTube "likes" and "dislikes" are hardly the definition of an objective, comprehensive poll--and only objective, comprehensive polls fit the definition of "math" or "science" as the PP mentioned. I like chocolate, and I could make an Internet video about the merits of chocolate, and I'll bet a lot of chocolate-lovers would watch the video and click "like."

    YouTube "likes" and "dislikes" are a poll of those who bothered to watch the review. Do you actually believe that everyone who watched TPM, went to YouTube and watched the RLM review? Really? That's what I was asking the PP for--a poll of a good portion of the population who had actually watched TPM. Not a poll of people who went to YouTube and sought out an RLM review.

    Wow. Is that a threat?

    But you can't provide an objective, comprehensive poll of prequel viewers, only your own commentary and reviews from people who agree with you.

    Got it.

    Try not to claim that's either "math" or "science" though. [face_laugh]
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Jan 26, 2013
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  9. Darth kRud Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 3
    You're right, I didn't much care for the racism in the prequels. If you can't figure out the whole Jar Jar thing then....anyhow, moral indignation aside, I really enjoyed watching the most epic villain ever to appear on the big screen be reduced to a whiny childboy who can't act center stage in a loveless love story. Five stars! Two thumbs up! Hail Lucas!
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  10. Luukeskywalker Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 1999
    star 4
    Here you go. This will get me started. I can give more tomorrow, as I don't have a ton of time now....

    RLM makes the claim that it is not clear or explained well what the jedi are sent on the mission to do at the beginning of TPM by the Chancellor. He states that opening crawl indicates that they were sent to settle a dispute over the taxation of trade routes. And then asks "what makes the jedi experts in intergalactic trade laws?"

    The fact is that the crawl indicates they were sent to settle the conflict. The conflict that they were most concerned with was the blockade which was threatening the planet, NOT to discuss intergalactic trade laws.Stoklosa tries to make it out like they went to settle a something about taxes, which is inaccurate. They went to try to talk them out of the blockade, which is the main point of the movie.

    The next point made in the RLM review:

    "So the Trade Federation have set up a blockade around Naboo, in order to stop them from getting space supplies. Which instantly causes some kind of crisis, that we never see [screech stop]...OK, I don't get it."

    Again, more ignorance by RLM who does not understand what a blockade is. A blockade shuts down trade just as he freaking stated in the above quote! He answered his own question. I would say its a safe bet that them not being able to continue with trade would be detrimental to their planet. And as Jim Raynor points out in his rebuttal, at the very least the blockade would be a violation of their sovereignty.

    This next part, I am just going to paste directly from Jim's rebuttal. I know he posts here and I doubt he will mind since I am crediting him. The following just helps prove just how dumb the RLM review is, and its just the conclusion of the first part:



    Plinkett: "So if the Trade Federation were like merchants, moving goods and services around the galaxy, then why do they seem more like a military, with armies of robots."
    The evil corporation is a common movie cliché. Many scifi stories take that idea even further, with companies that are so powerful that they own private armies.

    Furthermore, the movie makes it clear that the Trade Federation controls physical territory and has Senate representation. They're another planetary government within the Republic, just like the Naboo. It's not like governments don't take part in business.

    5:34

    Plinkett: "However, if they were like a bureaucracy, that was in charge of overseeing and regulating trade routes, you'd think they'd be happy about the whole new space taxes."
    Here, Stoklasa actually speculates that the Trade Federation might be an agency of the Republic's central government. Sorry, but this is astoundingly dumb. If they were a government agency, they'd be working for the government. You know, those guys called

    "the Senate" or "the Chancellor." There was never any mention of them being a Republic government agency gone rogue. If they were a Republic agency, then the Chancellor would not be sending "ambassadors" to "negotiate" with them. The opening crawl in fact describes the Trade Federation as "greedy," and it's mentioned a bit later that they have a "trade franchise." This suggests that they have a business interest in this, not some nonsense about trying to enforce tax laws.

    Stoklasa has time to make all this silly speculation, but he doesn't mention the easy explanation that actually works: That the Trade Federation is reliant on trade, and the taxes on trade routes are negatively affecting them. They're blockading Naboo as a protest to the Republic government. This idea instantly entered my fourteen-year-old mind as I was reading the opening crawl for the first time in the theater. But RLM, adult fanboy, can't seem to understand it.

    But you know what? Let's assume for the sake of analysis that part of Stoklasa's suggestion is correct. Let's assume that the Trade Federation is the one passing taxes here, despite the intuitive conclusion being that taxes on trade routes are harmful to the Trade Federation. So the Trade Federation passes oppressive tariffs over goods entering territory that they control (again, it's explicitly mentioned in the movie that they control territory). In real life, things like this can lead to similar taxes being passed in retaliation, kicking off "trade wars" with other governments...which sounds a lot like the


    That's not what happened, but it is another mostly viable explanation; which fits with the movie far more than Stoklasa's ridiculous and entirely unsupported suggestion that the Trade Federation is a government agency of the Republic's. And no, I don't expect anyone to think through all of this economic stuff while watching the movie. But while watching the movie, all you really have to know is that taxes are causing trouble. Anybody in the United States (the country where
    Star Wars originated) should know damn well that taxes can lead to conflicts; that is made clear in just about any public school's teaching of the American Revolution.

    None of this tax stuff is even focused upon by the movie except in single sentences that do nothing but briskly mention it. That's because the taxes are a mere MacGuffin


    matter who was passing the taxes and who was opposing them. Besides that, all the audience for this movie has to know is that the
    "greedy" Trade Federation is bullying the Naboo. Because a blockade is clearly a hostile and escalating act.

    Stoklasa nitpicks the MacGuffin, and then fails to provide a competent analysis of it. Instead, he just shoots off some ridiculous half-assed guesses and complains about how it doesn't make sense to him.
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Not at all what I said. Nice attempt to dodge the questions I asked about "math" and "science" though. ;)
  12. Norminator Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2009
    star 1
    A lot of people seem ignorant to the fact that Stoklasa didn't write everything in the reviews, he does the voice. Redlettermedia is a group of people, not one guy.
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  13. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    I look forward to completely ignoring whatever **** Plinkett / Stoklasa / RedLetterMedia have to say about Episode 7.
  14. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    All I have to say to that whole post is that if you're going to create a needlessly complex political plot to drive a conflict than you'd better explain that complex political plot so that we understand what it is and why it matters. Lucas fails to do so and there are all kinds of film critics who have called him on this.
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  15. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Regardless, it's a stereotypical load of ****. I use "Stoklasa" in my comments because "Plinkett" is a fictional character and "RLM" is a production company.
  16. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    Nope. A statement does not need to be proven to be universally true in order to be valid as something that's generally true. In fact, insisting on that as your standard of validity sets up what is essentially an impossible standard, as just about anything that's generally true has exceptions.

    For example, I could say "San Francisco is a liberal town", which is generally true - I believe that in the last election, SF went something like 80% Democratic. But it's not universally true: if SF is 20% Republican, that means that in a city of about 800,000 people, there's about 160,000 Republicans - a sizable number of people; enough to form a pretty big town just on their own. But the fact that some San Franciscans are conservative doesn't change the fact that in general, San Franciscans are liberal. The existence of exceptions - even a pretty large number of them - does not invalidate a general truth.
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  17. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I'm really amused because if anything the Prequel Trilogy is the series that reflects a stereotypical borderline abusive representation of women. Anakin is constantly giving Padme rapey looks, is clearly self-involved in his own problems and is bipolar to the point where he chokes his wife to death because he suspects that Padme tried to get Obi-Wan to kill him even though he should know better.
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  18. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    And she's totally ok with all this. Especially when she deludes herself into thinking that Anakin would "never kill younglings" even though he straight up admits to her that he's killed children before and she's totally fine with that.
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  19. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    From my experience, a lot of people who dislike Plinkett's reviews don't actually ignore them, but instead prefer to publicly rage about them over, and over, and over, and over, and over again.
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  20. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    You told @Luukeskywalker to go down the list because you had time. That's all you've got in response?
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  21. Norminator Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2009
    star 1
    And "Stoklasa" is, in this case, just a co-writer and a voice actor.
    Never thought people took Plinkett's "sexism" seriously. Sure, not "all women want" what he says, but humor really shouldn't be taken literally all the time.
    I am pretty sure that "all" women would "fall in love" only after they know something about a guy.
    More than "tall, handsome, awkward, obnoxious, whiny Jedi" anyway.
  22. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    I don't need to post a long winded seven paragraph essay to show why I disagree with what he has to say.
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  23. EHT Manager: New Films

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    That's true. I saw enough in very short time and now I just ignore them.
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  24. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    But what exactly would be the point in making a statement such as "San Francisco is a liberal town," if not to purposely eliminate or invalidate the opinions of conservatives who live in San Francisco?

    Stoklasa's statements are made intentionally to render women or 19-year-old boys who do not fit his idiotic stereotype as nonexistent or unworthy of notice.

    And that is what is so wrong about stereotypes and generalizations.

    And again, if he can't make an argument without using stereotypes and generalizations, he has no argument, since--as you agreed--all people do not behave the same way. Padme is one person. Even if, for argument's sake, no woman would ever behave the way she did--that does not mean that she would not behave that way. She is one person. Ditto with Anakin, he is one 19-year-old male, he in no way needs to be a caricature of the "general" 19-year-old male, whatever the hell that is. (I've met many men around that age in my lifetime and they all behave differently; after reading threads like this, I am exceedingly thankful that I am intelligent and broad-thinking enough to see people as individuals as opposed to putting people into generalized boxes for my own personal convenience, to keep me from having to, well, think.)

    I suppose that anyone who thinks that making stereotypical characters entails good storytelling would agree with Stoklasa, but I think it makes crap storytelling.
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  25. V-2 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I think a lot of anti-Plinkett types have a problem with the concept of parody.
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