ST Musings and details on second viewing

I watched TLJ for the second time after reading many posts on it, so I took special notice of certain scenes; also, small details that I missed the first time. Anyway, my new musings:

Right after unconscious Leia is brought on board, we see brief glimpse of a tall blue droid -- is this a throw-back to the medical droids in Episode III (you know, the ones making obnoxious "coo"ing noises while Padme gives birth)?

Inside Luke's hut is the compass he found in the "Battlefront II" video game.

Poe takes out the dreadnought canons so the bombers can approach it, but there are also star destroyers right there -- shouldn't they be able to target the bombers, even if the dreadnought cannot?

After Yoda burns the tree, Luke tries to enter it and there is a gust of flames that knocks him backwards -- is this the workings of the force, or just coincidence?

After Finn and Rose escape the casino prison, the guards chase them from the air and say something like "forget the herd, keep on the perps" (or something like that). It made sense to me the first time, since WE know Finn and Rose are important to the story. But on second viewing, I thought about it more, and wouldn't those animals be equivalent to million-dollar race horses in the real world? I think recovering them would be more important than chasing parking violators.

DJ definitely overhears Poe telling Finn about the escape shuttles. So that's how DJ knew the plan.

It's very shortly after the audience finds out Rey has a tracking device to find Leia, that the Resistance also realizes they are being tracked through hyperspace. And Finn is also worried about Rey. Yet Finn (along with Rose) immediately starts to think about some new hyperspace-tracking system that must be at work, rather than what I would think is the first thing that should enter Finn's mind: that Rey was captured and the First Order took her tracker to find Leia. On the first viewing, these early scenes happend fast, but on second viewing I put the two together (Rey's tracker; Resistance being tracked through hyperspace) and wondered why Finn didn't make the same conclusion? I mean, I know that conclusion would have ended up beeing wrong, but still -- don't you think that should have been one possibility he thought of?

Luke's projection onto Crait: Ok, with this one, there are comments by the filmmakers that Luke didn't interact with the environment at all, so I really looked carefully. There were 3 things: (1) when Luke pulls back his hood, there is definitely a "swooshing" sound made by the material. (2) When he sits on a crate facing Leia, the crate wobbles a little bit under his weight. And (3) as the gold dice disappear in Kylo's hand, the gold chain makes a "tinkling" noise as it dangles.

The sound of the Millenium Falcon! For just a second, when Rey leaves Achto (spell?). And then much more when Chewie is flying on Crait. I forgot how much that sound is associated in my mind with Star Wars. Also, the classic fighting music from Star Wars while the Falcon is flying through the rocks on Crait. So great.

Luke's death. On first viewing, I though his mechanical hand disappeared, with didn't make sense to me. But, I might have just missed it. On second viewing I looked very carefully, and nope, don't think it's there (the cloak blows away very easily, no sign of mechanical limb catching onto it or weighing it down).

Last scene on the Falcon, R2-D2 has a porg sitting on his head. I should feel outraged by the indignity of it, but it's actually cute and amusing to me.

Anyway, those are things that came to me the second time, that I missed the first go-around. I probably won't be seeing it again, so I'm sure there's a lot more that I missed and will have to wait for the dvd.

 

It's the same medical droid we saw in TFA.

Considering that Yoda knew that Rey made off with the books, this was most likely Yoda's way of sayng, "Nah-uh, you're not going inside!"

RJ said in an interview, when he watched the final edit of the film, it was only then when he realized that he should have had the robotic hand fall to the ground. So it was an admitted oversight.

Also noticed that too. I call that final shot, "The Cocktail Party Scene."

I also watched the movie the 2nd time last night after work. Noticed many other things too that others have mentioned (but I was too focused on plot than details the first time around). Stuff like the "Hardware Wars" iron scene, The X-wing door on Luke's hut, Finn opening the drawer with the books inside, Luke's non-footprints on the salt flats. and the kid at the end scene using the Force to call up the broom.

Also noticed:

- Rey calls Kylo Ren "Ben" in person (She yells "BEN!" when throwing her light saber to him to ignite on the guard's face).
- Luke running in the background after Chewie's Porg BBQ scene in order to get into the Millennium Falcon.
- The poles that drag on the salt flats from the rickety old fighters on Crait are called "monoskis" (Rose tells Finn this to help him fly properly). I would guess their purpose is to provide stabilization (aside from the visual impact).
- The Porg is the one that alerts Chewie of the herd of vupltexes running up the mountain. Dunno how the Porg would know what it's looking for, having just arrived on the planet, unless those animals are somehow strong in The Force.
- Even though C3PO is officially neutral, Lieutenant Connix is clearly on Team Poe.
- BB-8 short-circuits the trigger controls of the AT-ST in order to shoot the stormtroopers.
- Luke says the line, "Every word you just said is wrong!" to both Rey and Kylo Ren.

 

I won’t respond to each right now but to put your mind at rest about the Cops and Falthiers I’d say things change when one cop is hurt or humiliated and that’s exactly what happened to several of them. The prisoners also broke out. Once you piss off Cops the original conviction is irrelevant and things escalate with egos and brotherhood involved.

 

The illusion via astral projection goes beyond visuals though. That was obvious by the talking and lightsaber sound. Luke has to concentrate on selling every detail and connecting to that world. If there’s a slight wobble to the crate it’s either caused by something else, a legit error like Obi-Wan on the log, or potentially an homage to it.

It’s also important to note that similar to the Force ghosts themselves, which can only be seen by other Force sensitive people, the astral projection seems to have increased physical interaction for those connected to the Force. Luke clearly kisses Leia for example but that can be explained by their own connection and him simultaneously creating the illusion of being there and the sensation in her mind of giving her the kiss and the dice. Kylo Ren’s own Force connection also allows him to briefly hold the dice too. I suspect Poe or others would not have been able to. I also think it’s Rian’s way of showing us that Leia knows he’s not really there when they leave. She lets her other developing leaders make several key discoveries and choices the rest of the way and even says “Why are you waiting for me? Follow the man.” Or something along those lines.

 

Great points, I made a similar post regarding things I noticed and analysed on second viewing that I'll copy and paste here (some of the context of the post may not fit because I also connected my post to the initial backlash against the movie, but still, I'll post the complete message):

In response to the “#NotMyLuke” stuff circling the net:

We’ve seen Luke go to the edge of the dark side before, and pull himself back, he knows the lure and strength of the dark side - AND he had seen what damage two dark force users had done to the galaxy in such a short time: enslaving the galaxy, killing billions and wiping out the jedi order, to name but a few of their deeds, so it makes sense that this + Luke's own potential to lean to the dark (as seen in the OT) would cause him to fear the return of the oppressive evil and cause him to contemplate a quick end to it...

And guess what? Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to the dark side.

Luke giving into fear led to the dark side fully consuming Ben, who responded with fear, then anger, then hate.

I thought it was a clever inceptual seed of story telling. There was another of these too later on in the movie.

Yoda doesn't tell Luke he's wrong, he told him he's right, and even surprised us by destroying the tree instead of protecting it... Then set Luke straight by telling him that failure is the greatest teacher. What most of the audience appear to have missed is that it wasn't only Luke who learnt from this; Luke then used this lesson to teach Ben a great and humiliating lesson through failure - Kylo failed because he let anger and pride get in the way of his goal and he failed in his mission. Not only that but he was punked by an old man's force hologram - so powerful in the force that he could beam an illusion of himself across the galaxy AND dodge every attack Kylo wannabe-Vader threw at him.

That was more impressive than using the force to being down a star destroyer as the early rumours claimed, and that was a lesson and plot-point worthy in the successor of ESB as a second-in-the-trilogy movie, TLJ.

Can't help but love it.

#ThatsMyLuke

We didn’t get the movie we expected, we didn’t get the Luke we expected, but is that the fault of the writers? I expected a great movie, and even though I expected certain points to be addressed and a certain story for Luke, I definitely got a really great movie, but it wouldn’t have been great if it had been what I expected, because what I / we expected wouldn’t translate into a deep movie that is good both for hardcore fans and the general viewer, it would be more like a legends book turned into a YouTube fan movie with the backing of Disney, and that would probably suck. Along the lines of expectations, and in analysing the details, I made the following observations:

We expected a legend and all powerful Luke, that's addressed blatantly with Luke rejecting that notion (at least til the end), but what is also there in subtlety is that we expected a master of the force, and teacher, not a learner. Luke was still learning, Yoda taught him not where he was wrong, but where he was right, in accomplishment and in failure, and to pass it all on. He even busted Luke's ass; not in telling him not to burn the tree, but in burning actually it himself when Luke hesitates, which snapped Luke out of his stupor. That was amazing story telling imo.

Luke taught all of this both to Rey and to Kylo Ren, who learnt a lot through failure, in fact he failed just like Darth Vader did against old Ben, but even more spectacularly and embarrassingly.

Kylo makes a throwaway comment about the Rey connection, stating that she couldn't be the one projecting her image as it will kill her. That means that Luke knew he would die when he projected his image. You can see that realisation on Kylo's face after he realised he's been conned at the end. Why would Luke do this knowing he would die without good reason? Then it dawns on lil darth emo.

Luke uses the same line on Kylo as he used on Rey when teaching, "It's amazing, everything you said in that sentence was wrong".

His purpose was not to turn Kylo but to teach him. He was a balanced teacher, teaching the good pupil, hissuccessor, and the bad one, his failure. He has really screwed Kylo up in ways he couldn't if he would have just tried to turn him back (something that would have just ended in failure - Vader was consumed by the dark side while trying to save Padme, Ben chose the dark side willingly and fights the pull of the light side -there was no light side conflict before Luke called out to Vader and he gave in to it because he was a good guy gone bad for complex and twisted but actually unselfish reasons).
In teaching him he can reach him far better and cut far deeper than in attempting to redeem him. He's pretty much beyond saving, like an alcoholic who doesn't want help.

Also he is the first Jedi not to be a hypocrite - never using his weapon for attack. Luke came full circle, returning to being the non-violent champion he became at the end of TLJ, correcting his mistakes that he had made earlier and the mistakes that had cost previous jedi dearly.


Nice catch regarding his mech hand, hopefully they fix that for the DVD and BR release

 

I forgot to add something else to my initial post: at least two characters say something like "Godspeed Rebels" -- is this the first reference to a deity in a Star Wars film? I think so, but not certain. Off-hand, I can't remember a deity reference in the other films.

 

Thank the maker!

(Sort of, though some see that more as the first droid or human maker it’s been debated)

C3PO also says in ROTJ: “It’s against my programming to impersonate a deity.” And “some kind of God.”

The characters do refer to hell several times in the OT though. Perhaps most notably by Han’s “Then I’ll see you in hell!”

Jar Jar also says “Demanded by the gods, it is!”

Mostly though, I think the usage could simply refer more to the Middle English use of Good luck or prosperous journey. Perhaps it’s just an old saying that’s been used in that universe for nearly as long or adapted from other cultures.

 

I'm so glad to see someone else mention this.

I'm not sure what happened in TFA, if it was actually a different sound or if it was mixed wrong or what, but the TFA Falcon just didn't sound right to me. But that scene of Rey leaving the island, THAT is what the Falcon is supposed to sound like. And yes, it's one of the most iconic sounds in the saga and they damn well better leave it alone for IX

 

On the Luke projection thing, I think Luke can adjust just how much he's there, hence why I think he's basically there when he sits down with Leia but then shifts to a really convincing illusion when he delays Kylo. Kylo also picks up the dice so the projection can be a thing you can physically interact with.

 

Don't forget that The Force itself counts as a deity. And various species have their own concepts of a deity or deities, i.e. C3PO to the Ewoks.

 

Took me about 2 or 3 viewings to definitively catch "Rey took off in an escape pod from Snoke's throne room" line. I was a tad confused when she randomly showed up on the Falcon on my 1st viewing.

 

Saw the bit where Rey - from desert planet Jakku - is enjoying the rain...however, I noticed this happened AFTER she was chasing after Luke in a driving rainstorm. I would think that the novelty of rain would have worn off by then.

 

Thanks. I've seen the OT 100 times each, and I've forgotten these!

 

With Carrie gone, I love that Connix had a larger role. While certainly not the original intent, I think her expanded role was a nice homage to her mom. With each viewing, I appreciate that detail more and more. (I also love C3PO in this movie. He was in character throughout and was a great supporting role. He didn't seem forced at all.)

 

Note that she has a Leia-esque hairdo. I wish they could have made Connix from Naboo or had her parents originally from Alderaan (Wookieepedia says she's from a planet called Dulathia); so her character would at least share some sort of cultural heritage with Leia.