My 2 fav subjects- Starwars and Religion

"LoL, your arguments(and mine) only work logically if you presume science or the other accounts are the default. And vice versa. "

It all comes down to that, doesn't it? But the important thing is that we both believe in God.

"I don't see how it contradicts itself, could you enlighten me? "

In one part, it says that God made the animals first, then people, and in the next part, it says that He made people first, then animals.

TC

 

Never heard that one personally.

That is the matter's crux though

 

never heard that one either.

and if it's true then the fact that he mentioned it twice means it might just be meant to be taken literally.


Yes that is important, I'm going to retire to lurking once again, it's been fun and informative. *tips hat*

 

Your call dude.

I think taking it literally is unhealthy.

Even if just because people who accept history occasionally fail to look for messages within.

Later

 

I have heard it...you are talking about the inconsistancies in Genesis 1 and 2 right?

well this is how my Old Testament professor explained it. You have in the first chapter, a telling of the whole story, from the outside looking in. The name used to describe God is YWH, which means I am what I am. In the second chapter, The author of Genesis, (either moses or JEDP depending on your stance in literalism) uses Adonai, which means Lord, or a more personal name of God. The second chapter is focusing on Adam, and his perceptions in the garden of Eden. God had created everything on the earth, but when he created the Garden, he did it all in front of Adam, to show his power. The first and second verses of the 2 chapter clearly state that the actions in the rest of the 2 chapter happen AFTER the 7 days. God was demonstrating his power to man, allowing him to see his works, and know that he was God.

 

Good fix. Maybe we should get him to work on the Marvel comics and the GODV books...

TC

 

First of all, I have not read all six pages of this so, I do not know all what has been going down in here.

StarcrusherX: I agree with you, keep up the good work.

jastermareel: Why Exactly are you an atheist? I would like to here reasons you are, not reasons you don't believe in a supreme being

 

Story... This man came to my dads work (my family owns two health food stores) and started to lecture him about Christianity. He tried to convince him to convert! I respect all religions but that I hate... anyway, no one should bother him when he could be helping a customer. My dad was nice at first but then, after a while, he just told the guy that he was Hindu all his life and wasn't going to change. I got to see that man latter. He is scary and looks like he takes drugs or something. That teaches you to not judge people by the way they look. Or maybe he does have problems. I know that the bible says you shouldn't have anyone before God but that is annoying. We don't do anything bad. I mean, health food stores! We help people. (it is a business though, so it is for money.. i mean my parents work a lot and earn it)My do something they believe in. I'm sure we could have just a easily opened the liquor store next door instead of a health food store. Sorry, venting.

But, I have a few questions..

What to you guys think of reincarnation?
I think that i way more fare than the whole heaven and hell thing. I mean people wouldn't have equal opportunities to reach Heaven. Also, what are the people with dieses being punished for if they didn't do anything bad in that life?

Do you fear God?
I sometimes do. Something tells me to fear Him. But, I don't want to; that is the wrong emotion. Fear is a bad type of respect. Your supposed to love God...

 

That guy had some nerve...

>What to you guys think of reincarnation?

Don't believe in it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.

>Do you fear God?
>I sometimes do. Something tells me to fear Him. But, I don't want to; that is >the wrong emotion. Fear is a bad type of respect. Your supposed to love >God...

I agree.

TC

 

Fear means to obey...it doesn't mean afraid. it is like saying, "mind the end will you," meaning watch out for it

 

WW is right.

TC

 

WW is right.

TC

 

"What to you guys think of reincarnation?"

Don't believe in it. I don't think that reincarnation works unless you have memories of you past life/lives. There's no point in being punished unless you don't know why you're being punished, and you can't really learn a lesson unless you know what you did wrong. In answer to your argument.... people are given an equal chance to go to heaven and hell (well, somewhat equal chance anyway) and if they make a mistake why should they not have to give it up..... but reincarnation works if you remember it... at least in my opinion

"Also, what are the people with dieases being punished for if they didn't do anything bad in that life?"

I think diseases in some cases are punishments, but in others I see them as tests, to see how strong your faith in God is, whether you only turn to him in time of need etc.

 

that guy shouldn't of pressed the issue, but there is far worse proselysing going on. Look at all the new age stuff being stuffed into little kids at school. They aren't able to tell the teacher to get lost.


Reincarnation wouldn't make sense, how could the population grow if people were just reincarnated.

As for diseases, God takes a hands off approach with some of the things in this world. Most diseases, are somebody else's fault, not God's. Most of our std's came about from people committing bestiality. Other things have come from incest, eating the wrong stuff, drugs, and whatnot. If a truly good person has cancer or something, they should realize it's not their fault and something else must be at work. Sickness and problems isn't always about you, it could be about someone else close to you.

 

beafet...since you asked, i return to answer.........however i'm not sure i completely understand the distinction you are making...you ask me to give reasons i am an atheist instead of giving reasons why i don't belive in a "supreme being"......as i see it the two are the same thing...i am an atheist because i don't belive in a "supreme being" and as such, showing why i don't belive in one is showing why i am an atheist.........if this isn't satisfactory try rephrasing...



Tahiri_2 in responce to your two questions:
What to you guys think of reincarnation?
i don't belive in it since it implies the existence of a soul(which i don't belive in either) or some analagous thing which transfers whatever we are into a different body......and also it doesn't work numericaly if you have a human only system...

Do you fear God?
i don't belive in a god, and so i don't fear god anymore than i fear the monsters under my bed......


"Keaton once said, "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him." Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze."
--Verbal Kint, Usual Suspects

 

Thats it?...Thats the end?...After all of this...it ends with a Usual Suspects quote?...er...well...it had ended...before this....but...well...you get the idea.........but is that really it?...the end?...the conclusion?...are we going to really let it end like this?

 

LOL, I'd like to know if you've been an atheist all your life, or it's something you started to believe(or disbelieve) after you've been educated in the gloriously long 5 billion years of our history.

 

"Most diseases, are somebody else's fault, not God's"- ok well i thought that you think god controls everything..? I don't think that it would be right for really good people to suffer like some do. It would be easier to believe in reincarnation or that there is no god than see some suffer they way they do. This is from personal experience. Like my grandmother who has Alzheimer's and cant remember anything; she believed in God all her life. She probably never questioned as much as I do. How can someone that can?t remember to pray be tested about their faith in God? What about those ESE students that I worked with this summer. They are so nice... when they aren't flirting with you. But if they weren't in a special education program maybe those students would have a better chance of getting with whoever they like.. the job they want. What about children that weren't created equal? So what if their mom smoked would God really just ruin one persons life to show someone else they did something wrong? .. I believe in reincarnation with all types of life not just humans.

?LOL, I'd like to know if you've been an atheist all your life, or it's something you started to believe(or disbelieve) after you've been educated in the gloriously long 5 billion years of our history.? You say that like they don't teach us about religion at school!


?Fear means to obey...it doesn't mean afraid. it is like saying, "mind the end will you," meaning watch out for it? Fear does not mean to obey! I can fear something and hate it at the same time. Minding the end is good, fearing the end is bad. Why be afraid when you know you are a good person? Fear can mean both, to respect and be afraid. Of all the things they say in starwars, I have learned that fearing things is bad. That doesn't mean that I?m going to do something really stupid but ... well I hope you get my point. For me the best feeling to have towards anyone, especially god is love. Read my signature!

 

God is in control, but he's not a dictator. Everone's sin affects someone besides them. Adam and eve's sins still affect us. We're mortal, bad things happen. No one has any right to blame God for bad things if they don't give him glory for the good ones. For being born. For breathing air. Like I said the disease isn't always about testing the "victim" it could be anything for anyone.

as for religion in school, I'm drawing from my own life experience. I actually got in trouble for saying hell, but any of the swear words were ok.

 

while i can't certify that i've always been an atheist (i didn't always know the concept or the word for it)...i don't think that i've ever belived in a god......very early in life, still continuing to the present, i spent a great deal of time thinking about religion, faith, and god and just found that i didn't like the idea of beliving in something so irrational......esspecialy with there being nothing to actualy support it but the lack of logic in faith.........i remember that ever since i could argue i debated with people the legitimacy of the bible...esspecialy heated, but coherant argumets at the middle school lunch table (the opposition never did explain why cain was afraid of the others in the world hurting or killing him when all there was supposedly was this so called deity, adam, eve, cain, and the corpse of able)......anyway...while i can't accurately call my self a life long atheist...i've never really had more than the weakest feelings of faith...and that is long long long past...

As to your other comment in that post about having been taught evolution and the like (science, evidence based theories and the like)...that happened in school...yes...however much of freshman year was spent on the bible..."as literature"...literature my (this area censored for your protection)!...it was a thinly disgised attempt to indoctrinate us......also i leaned of religion far earlier in life than i learned about evolution and the related sciences...forturnately...very very fortunately i wasn't brain washed into any particuar belife system having been raised UU(unitarian universalist)...basicaly they say(at least by my interpriation): do your own thing...belive what you will...just be tolerant of others...(although i'm not that great at that last part...i prefer to be debating them...making them think about what they belive...no nessesarily to change their minds but encourage them to think about it more carefuly).........anyway...to answer your question...i started to belive, my own system of beliefs and nitpick organized religions, long before i was taught about evolution and the related sciences...



Some people would rather be "born again", than to grow up--anonymous

 

Hmm interesting.
the bible almost never mentions women in geneology so must we assume there aren't any? cain married his sister. He was afraid of various cousins. Adam and eve lived a long time and had more kids than just cain and able, and they had kids etc.

btw, why shouldn't the bible be in literature? the most popular book in the history of the world doesn't belong there?

 

i fail to see the connection between women in geneology and the fifth human being on earth(the second to be female i might add...the first naturaly born one at that!)(although i might add that there are those who belive that if it isn't in there it doesn't exist)......considering the volumes and volumes of nothing but x begat y and produced z in the bible you would think that the reader might, just might mind you, be told of this daughter figure that somehow formed a whole other group far away from home presumeabley at a younger age(time warp excluded) than either of the two brothers had been......also...you said, "He was afraid of various cousins."...um...pardon me...but...last time i checked...in order to have a cousin...one of your parents had to have a sibling......and unless god had a human child in his getting it on with an angel on the sly(pardon my crudeness in stateing the only possibility that comes to mind), neither Adam nor Eve had siblings and as a result neither Adam nor Eve could be Uncle or Aunt(respectively), and additionaly THERE COULD BE NO COUSINS, and without cousins, we are left beliving that cain was a paranoid delusional...

 

Hello, women aren't mentioned in geneology so they wouldn't mention the daughters. And cain had at least 1 other brother named seth. Seth had kids, they grew up, and cain was afraid. So it's nephews, not cousins, my bad. Adam lived a long time, those kids grew up and had kids who grew up. hundreds of years of having children, having children could develop several villages.

 

i see...i shall have to investigate this seth...for until today i had not heard one mention of him......also...women are mentioned enough...that she should be there...esspecialy considering that she was the first in the second generation of humans...and the first natural born one...

 

God does not control the earth, as we do peices on a Chess Board. The greatest gift that God gave us was the freedom of will. It is our choice to accept him, it is our choice to do his will, and if we choose wrong, it is our fault. God gives us every oprotunity, you can't blame not hearing him. The Bible says, even the rocks will cry out his name. As for disease being a "punishment" It is not. There was a wonderful man, 34 years old that I knew, he was a wonderful Father, a gentle husband, and an excellent friend. He died of cancer two weeks ago, and it was really ugly. You can't blame God on circumstance. EVERYONE dies, their are only two men who escaped death, and that was Enoch, and Elisha. Not all disease however is coincedence. STD's ARE punishment for immoral lifesyle. Nature itself has rules, that we as humans attempt to break all the time. Last thing, Athiesm is the "belief in the non existence of God"...now, that statement there is proof of Gods existence. It is just saying that you refuse to consider it. Tell me somthing, is there anything that I could possibly say, that would convence you in the existence of God? (I'm not trying to be rude, just upfront,)