My Annual (St Patrick's) Question

Sorry I'll rephrase it


Paddy's day provides nothing of benefit to the boards so why keep it.

Wouldn't it be better to create a celebratory day that is more in keeping with the theme of the board (Thank the Maker day) and remove the non-sensical holiday banners.



TBH I have more dislike of Talk like a Sodding Pirate day than I do of Paddy's day but Paddy's day comes first so it gets the grief first





And what does paddy's day provide you on these here boards? Do you post with an Irish accent on the day or post Irish themed threads on the day? At least TLAP day people do indeed (to my visual detriment) talk like a pirate and post Piratey threads.

 

The problem I have with St. Patrick's Day is that to my mind I associate it very closely with religion/individual Countries. IMO, this board has become such a global communinty that you really can't justify making a big deal out of something that is limited to certain people.

Valentines is open to everybody.
Halloween is open to everybody.
And even Christmas is celebrated here as "The Holdays" Which means that non Christians can get involved in the fun and use it as a "winter festival" is they so wish (which Dec 25th actually was, before it was hijacked by Christians )

So, in that context, I just think that St. Patricks Day is out of place and again, if you follow the logic through that St. Patrick's Day should remain, how do you stop other Countries from having their own special days? Why not St. Georges Day? Or St. Andrews Day? Or Independence Day? Or Canada Day? Or Autralia Day? It could quite easily get out of hand.

I LOVE the idea of a George Lucas (Thank The Maker) Day and I also love Strilo's idea of having an Armistice (Veterans) Day. Both of these "celebrations" would be inclusive and everyone could join in and have fun (though in the case of Armistice Day I'm not sure "fun" is the right word - Maybe commemerate would be a better word)

 

I'm glad you brought up Halloween. Do you realize that to many Halloween is extremely offensive? I could easily take offense on Halloween and make a thread in Comms citing all the evils of celebrating Halloween but I don't. Why? MOUNTAIN/molehill. Why make a fuss over a few days of what is fun for most of the board?

I see the fuss that has been made about St. Patrick's Day as the same.

 

BtM makes a good point.

 

I agree that this thread is to some capacity a case of Mountain and Molehill but without user questioning the current state of play you would never get an answer for why things haven't changed (see this weeks mod squad update for details) or why they're looking at bringing in Thank the Maker day.


So it is a blow up over nothing?

To a degree yes


Is there a suitable and more appropriate celebration in the works?

Yes there is.



Result?

A more inclusive celebration being created which is to the benefit of everyone.



Was this thread worthwhile?

The arguing? no

The result? Yes







Mountains and molehills have their place.

 

I didn't know Halloween could be offensive. To be consistent, I would also favour tonning down the Halloween celebrations as well, then.

As for the issue about mountains and molehills, you could make that arguement about any (or most) subjects brought up in Communications, but that doesn't mean that it isn't something that shouldn't be discussed/debated and even if ultimatly St. Patricks ends up being kept, we know that thanks to this debate we're going to end up with a George Lucas Day, which I think is fantastic and inspired. So, its amazing how good ideas can flow from seemingly trivial discussions.

 

You guys see where we're going with this? Trying to not offend a percentage of the users, and trying to figure out where to draw the line. Just like with religion/belief argument, at no time is no one going to be offended by something on a site this large with a userbase this large.

 

To be fair though, the offence issue is only one reason for not having St. Patricks Day. The other issue (which I actually think is more important) is how can you justify having St. Patrick's Day and not having other celebrations, like George's Day, Andrews Day, David's Day, Independece Day, Australia Day, Canada Day, etc....

Its just always seemed to me that Patrick's Day is an odd thing for this community to be celebrating. But I'll admit, I don't feel outraged about it, or anything.

 

I still think that this is as some put it, mountain/molehill. I could see removeing St. Patrick's Day if a majority of the boards users were against it but the people opposing it are in the minority. As for the other holidays you mentioned...this is a American based website whether you want to accept it or not. That should be enough of a reason for you. If you want to celebrate your own countries holidays bring it up with your local FanForce RSA.

 

I'm all in favor of a David's Day, so long as the one we're celebrating is me.

[Pirate Day]Ya saavy?[/Pirate Day]

 

Every Pirate Day, God kills a million kittens.

 

You are wrong in your assumption and I advise you to tread carefully before making general statements about national or religious prejudice!

 

So why not make a poll in Comms?

St Patricks Day: Should the JC "celebrate" it? Yes or No?

-Yes
-No

 

I would be happy to put this to a vote in Comms and YJCC. Obviously I would be on the losing side (because as Rox points out this is a American message board and St Patrick's is here because its a big thing in America) But at least the issue will have been debated seriously and everybody who wants will have made their view known. That should put the debate to bed for a few years.

 

I was making an observation based on what I read through this thread.

 

But your observation is implying there is an element of racism or anti-religion in the comments of those who are disputing the reasoning for "acknowledging" a celebration that is not international in its theme. Anyone making an observation of this kind is mistaken in the intentions of those of us who are speaking against St Patrick's day on the boards.

The Irish question is quite close to home for anyone living in wither the UK or Ireland.

 

People can detest St. Patrick's Day banners as recognitions of an obscure holiday if they like, but there's no point in assigning any religious or political significance to the day as it is celebrated in America. (And it *is* semi-peculiar to America, which is why we are having this conversation.)

The only reason St. Patrick's Day is of significance in America at all is because once upon a time, around 150 years ago, all of Ireland moved to America in the wake of a famine. Then, about 40 years later, all of Ireland moved here again. Just about every white American you see and a surprising number of non-white ones have Irish ancestors. These ancestors left their home country all at once under unexpected duress, and many spent the rest of their lives feeling bitter about it. They needed a day to mourn their state of diaspora. St. Patrick's Day--originally a very solemn religious holiday in the middle of Lent--became the day when Irish communities sang the old songs, told the old stories, and and drank a whole lot to numb the pain of a really miserable life.

The second generation of Irish-Americans thought they could do without the misery part, and only kind of remembered the songs and stories Dad used to slur on about when he was really snockered and depressed. They did remember the beer, though. They proceded to scandalize the more pious of their parents by adding things like parades through ethnic-Irish areas of the city, frequently subsidized by labor unions representing trades the Irish had been marginalized to (bricklayers, miners, policemen, etc.).

The third generation of Irish-Americans were also German, English, Italian, Dutch, and a bunch of other things. Many had never met the original miserable Irish immigrants, and were kind of hazy on those old Irish song things. But they did remember the beer. Since lots of them weren't Catholic, there seemed to be no harm in really pushing the beer angle, even though St. Patrick's Day is in the middle of Lent. So general wild partying began to accompany the rather tame parades of hanky-waving coal miners. Bar owners promoted the wild partying part of the holiday like crazy, for obvious reasons, and St. Patrick's Day became a kind of Mardi Gras II. (Mardi Gras being the day when we all pretend we're drunken French Catholics instead of drunken Irish Catholics.)

The fourth generation of "Irish-Americans" had last names like Kowalczak, Scarletti, DuBois, Cohen, and Ramirez, weren't too sure who St. Patrick was, and could not name a single traditional Irish song--but they did remember the beer. They also had vague recollections of people wearing a lot of green, and they'd seen "Irish" things like the little leprechaun on the Lucky Charms box. So they dyed everything from their hair to the Chicago River green, and cardboard variations on the leprechaun theme went up on the wall. Nobody really knows what the hell a leprechaun is, but cardboard ones look sort of interesting when you're really drunk and listening to fake-traditional Irish songs you can't identify.

Probably about 80% of Americans younger than the Lucky Charms leprechaun have at least some Irish ancestors--along with ancestors from England, Scotland, France, Germany, Spain, Romania, the Gambia, the Czech Republic, any and all nations in Central and South America, the Pacific Islands, West Africa, Southeast Asia, and Guam. (You can never forget Guam.) We aren't too good at geography, and most of us probably can't identify Ireland on a map. Most of us also have no idea who St. Patrick was, why anybody cares about him, or why he's somehow associated with the color green. (Green has political and religious significance in Ireland, which it why it's on its flag. Green has *no* religious or political significance in America, where people tend to get the Irish flag confused with the ones from France and Italy.)

We do like beer, though.

Again, in the U.S., St. Patrick's Day is not political, not religious, and not about Ireland. It exists because of the great Potato Famine

 

That was an awesome post, ophelia.

 

I'd quote Ophelia, but that would be quote spamming, or something. But, anyway, what she said.

Why does everything on this site turn into a gigantic debate? It's a holiday at least recognized, for various reasons, by the majority of the JC population, they put up fun banners and icons, and everything goes away in a day or two. Who does it hurt? Really? To quote... whichever ex-mod it is whose identity escapes me (Jeff?) Forgive me please... "The JC can't be everything for everyone" and I really don't think the answer to that is to make it nothing for no one. I hate the pink on Valentine's Day and the pirates and all of that, but I put up with it because it's harmless and other people find it amusing. I don't think there's any underlying racism in not recognizing other holidays. Let's be reasonable, it'd be extremely difficult to recognize everything, and I think it's pointless to say "if you can't recognize everything, don't recognize anything."

Just my two credits...

 

One out of every three Americans has German ancestry... does that mean we can have an Oktoberfest banner too?

 

Nobody is accusing the administration or owners of racism, for not allowing other holidays. That really would be taking something quite trivial and blowing it out of preportion. It's just that a minority think there is an issue of fairness here, and that in the global community that the Jedi Council has become, there may be a case for re-evaluating the wisdom of making a big event out of something thats very specific to the host nation of the forums, but does exclude a lot of other people in a way that say Christmas, which is celebrated simply as "The Holidays" doesn't. But for sure, its never even crossed my mind that this is an issue of race or racism.

And again, because of this discussion we're going to get a George Lucas Day, which everybody will have fun with and will hopefully go on to become a JC tradition, so even if nothing else comes from this debate, the debate itself has already produced something worthwhile and noteworthy.

 

LOL, Ophelia, that was one of the best things I've read in comms in a very long time. And spot on too. I'm raising my hand for the Octoberfest banner. I really like beer.

 

GL day sounds fine, and the JCC birthday too. i don't think they should be replacing St Paddys, though, merely in addition to. and who cares, keep the Pirate day, too.

i agree with Jesina, basically.

 

[whiny voice] I care! [/whiny voice]

 

I stopped reading after that person then said "all" again.


I see the 'mountain/molehill' bandwagon has rolled into town.