My Country's Better than Your Country

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by im_posessed, Dec 15, 2004.

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  1. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    It's not like people are denied access to doctors by law, however. :p
  2. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    That's only if you are arrested and charged with a crime. It does you no good if someone sues you in a civil trial.

    Kimball Kinnison
  3. BAR_BAR_DRINKS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2003
    star 1
    but doctors/hospitals (please read NOT ALL) do love insurance
    an ifs yous dont gots its, yous dont gets its



    isnt that part of the greed you were discussing earlier?








    just inqueiring
    EDIT: ps i do not like insurance companies, sam i am
    & sorry if this is the wrong topic for this forum
  4. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Perhaps you might want to cut back on those drinks, Bar Bar.
  5. Erk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2001
    star 4
    "If you are against such inequality, and would prefer that we release all these poor innocent sparkling citizens whose only crime was that they stuck a knife in someones gut and watch as they dance out into a happy field of pink clouds and fluffy bunnys, well, it wouldnt surprise me."

    Well, I am, and I think the country which comes closest to this dream, win.

    "But can you stay on topic with your next reply, and tone down the attitude a tad?"

    Hmm, maybe you were not refering to me at all..?

    "Why is it that only a handful of countries have space programs for example?"

    The us is so smart, a space program, wow.
  6. SpreadtheMuse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2006
    star 1
    You know what? I'll agree. Greed is a proactive motivator. Greed is a want that drives accomplishment.

    So therefore, instead of using that word to describe the welfare freeloaders, lets say sloth and....entitlement addiction. All those absolute whiners who rioted in France when they passed a law that said if you suck at your job, you can be fired.
    HHAHAHAHAH

    I couldnt believe the supreme arrogance on display. They have a RIGHT to never be fired??? And they wonder why their economy grows like a slug?
  7. SpreadtheMuse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2006
    star 1
    Actually I wasnt talking to you in that post, Erk, perhaps made obvious that not only does no quote of yours appears anywhere in it, [face_thinking] but in fact the quote of a totally different poster does. So thank you for paying attention. :-B

    But as long as we are here::: SPACE PROGRAM!! You bet. US makes the technology while other countries sit back and whine...while using the same technology. Tell me Erk, has all your socialism utopia with freed criminals (as you ridiculously said that you were in favor of), actually PRODUCED anything?

    Name one technological contribution your country has made in the last 50 years.
    Did it contribute anything to the computer revolution?
    Did it contribute anything to the electronics explosion of the last ten years? Anything, or is it really all you do everyday, sit around like a bump on a log complaining about far more productive countries, using technology you didnt lift a finger to help create? But you are more than willing to use the technology of smarter countries arent you?[face_shame_on_you] (Sounds a little hypocritical to me).

    Now pardon me as I go laugh about how you actually ADMITTED you wanted all criminals to be freed to run with fluffy bunnies.:eek: That was a trick question which you walked right into. Can they live in YOUR house? :p
  8. SpreadtheMuse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2006
    star 1
    I adjusted my answer about Greed, as I do in fact frequently brush the financial "gotcha" as it were. But it isnt my greed that gets me out, but my inherent sense of self-respect and hard work.

    Now I will be the first to say that the USA IS A LOT better than any number of other countries on the planet. If other countries have problems that prevent them from being as good as they could be, it cannot be shoved under the rug that a great deal of those problems (not all mind you) are self-inflicted, and they cause their own misery. Europe makes ridiculous labor laws they deny an employer the right to hire and fire as he sees fit, then they wonder with shock and alarm why their economies grow at the stupendous rate 1%. Other countries let themselves be ruled by complacency as the order of the day. As I was telling Erk, these countries contribute nothing to the world, yet will freely use everything that everyone else contributes, a national state of freeloader. Other countries let their policies be dominated by religious, superstitious, and cultural handicaps that prevent them from stepping up to the plate as productive members of the planet. A great many of these situations are there by THEIR CHOICE, and they have no one to blame but themselves for it.

    Now as for the Space Program, its very presense is proof that our way is superior. WHY DO we have money to spend on it? WHY are we the ones with the technological innovation and genius and motivation to do such a thing? WHY are we able to make such productive strides while other countries cant? I say because when we have a problem, we dont sit back and whine. We do something about it. We have a drive and compulsion to improve ourselves and push the boundries and other countries dont. Other countries, with Europe fast becoming the best example, are content to just lie down and let life happen, let everyone else do all the work and make all the sacrifice. We have the money to have a space program because WE WORK AND EARN IT. They dont.

    And yet these sloth countries are MORE than willing to take our technology, AFTER the hard work has been done and money has been spent, for need I bring up cell phones, GPS Satellites, Weather Satellites, and general instantaneous intra-continent communication. WHICH one of these do we get to thank Europe for, and which one has Europe ever thanked us for? [face_thinking] I wont hold my breath. But they have no trouble USING all that technology that our hard work created, dont they? Use it and then complain what good the USA has ever done? :p

    When any other country revolutionizes communication, THEN they can talk. Until then, USA holds its superior place and deservedly so.
  9. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    I'm gonna agree with Beowulf on this one,
    America is not better that any other country, and I'll prove it to you. You say other countries don't contribute to the world, well, look at this.America contributes a lot into the world, when it comes to technology and the like, but look at it this way. Since we are in such a large debt that we actually borrow capital from the countries that "don't benefit the world." And, lately,what good have we brought the world but two wars and death.

    What money? we're borrowing from other countries just to pay the interest on the public debt.

    That "genius" isn't lasting for long, since America's youth aren't testing any where near as well as the rest of the world.

    While they pay all the money

    Considering half of these items are made in other countries by youth in sweathshops.

    What part of they are making innovations as well don't you understand?

    Actually, benefitting the world is more that just technology. Some countries don't even start wars or get into any conflicts, which benefits the world. Some countries don't increase the pollution, which benefits the world. Sha
  10. Erk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2001
    star 4
    "Actually I wasnt talking to you in that post, Erk, perhaps made obvious that not only does no quote of yours appears anywhere in it, but in fact the quote of a totally different poster does. So thank you for paying attention. "

    No prob.

    "But as long as we are here::: SPACE PROGRAM!! You bet. US makes the technology while other countries sit back and whine...while using the same technology. Tell me Erk, has all your socialism utopia with freed criminals (as you ridiculously said that you were in favor of), actually PRODUCED anything?"

    It hasn't as it doesn't exist. But I know that the communist were first in space, so I guess they had the best country in 1960.

    "Name one technological contribution your country has made in the last 50 years.
    Did it contribute anything to the computer revolution?
    Did it contribute anything to the electronics explosion of the last ten years? Anything, or is it really all you do everyday, sit around like a bump on a log complaining about far more productive countries, using technology you didnt lift a finger to help create? But you are more than willing to use the technology of smarter countries arent you? (Sounds a little hypocritical to me)."

    I would say, that it is smart. Think about it, you sacrifice welfare to have a space program.
    We keep welfare and freeload of you.

    "Now pardon me as I go laugh about how you actually ADMITTED you wanted all criminals to be freed to run with fluffy bunnies. That was a trick question which you walked right into. Can they live in YOUR house?"

    They certainly can. When will I regret walking in?
  11. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    re: doctors (sorry its a bit back) but i'd point out that anyone can go to emergency room and they can't be turned away.... so, looks like the US does ahve that one covered
  12. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Which, of course, drives up the costs of care for everyone, because it's a lot more expensive to treat ordinary everyday medical conditions at an emergency room than it is through a regular practice.

    It would be so much cheaper for everyone to just make sure everyone has some kind of coverage.
  13. SpreadtheMuse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2006
    star 1
    Oh you were doing so well with a logical argument, but then sabotage yourself over a ham-handed juvenile punchline, which says more about your bias in the matter than anything rational. Keep to the facts if you dont want to be written off as a nut. I have never met you before in my life and you have already made a lousy impression :p. Now let us discuss::::

    nd, lately,what good have we brought the world but two wars and death.

    I'm sorry, but this is just superficial. What does "lately" have to do with it? Either the US made the 21st century the technological pinnacle that it is, or we didnt. I am sorry if you didnt vote for Bush and are now a sore loser about it, but that is a personal matter, hardly a debate point you can just drop with zero context "We started a war! So there!" and think you're being clever.

    What money? we're borrowing from other countries just to pay the interest on the public debt.

    You mentioned this more than once, and I honestly have to say--
    So what? This another big boogieman just dropped out of nowhere with expectations of brilliance.

    What money? we're borrowing from other countries just to pay the interest on the public debt.

    Whereas I am more aware of this than you (Im the teacher after all), the last time I asked for specific stats from Beowolf, I called his bluff and he had nothing to say but the usual left-wing blog rhetoric. I would hope you would have more to say, for I can say that whereas our dumb kids are getting dumber, our smart kids are also getting smarter. (I get to give them their passing grades after all).

    Considering half of these items are made in other countries by youth in sweathshops.

    Well then it sounds like any country that would put up with that is pretty unenlightened, and therefore WORSE than us, wouldnt it?

    I know you were probably proud of this point of yours, but in context with the original point, it is quite irrelevant. In fact a point for MY side. If all these other wonderful countries were so technologically wonderful as we are, they wouldnt need sweatshops, now would they? We invent stuff, and they copy and/or steal it. THEY seem to think we have the best stuff.

    What part of they are making innovations as well don't you understand?

    So why didnt you NAME ONE? That should have been obvious.

    Actually, benefitting the world is more that just technology. Some countries don't even start wars or get into any conflicts, which benefits the world. Some countries don't increase the pollution, which benefits the world. Shall I continue my list?

    Can you? Frankly nothing here is impressive in the slightest, just a mere cut and paste from a superficial list. Pollution is DOWN in this country while it is going UP in China, India, and the Third World, facts which are well known to everyone else but apparently overlooked by you, which tells me you dont really care what is true and what isnt. If you think "they dont start wars" is a real touchdown then you are in for a disappointment. Be against them as you may, but we are supposed to be allowed to disagree and have a reasonable debate on the matter before you appoint yourself judge and jury on the matter. Its more than a matter of your stupendous opinion of yourself to make them out to be the "well SO THERE!" that you think they are.
    Ronald Reagan said it best. There is only one sure way to have peace, and by doing this you can have it tomorrow. :::
    Surrender.
    At certain points in time somebody has to stand up and say "Something has to be done, and if not me, then who?" Sitting on your hands and just pretending its all OK is the easiest, simplest way to appease a conscience, but I doubt you can point to many instances in history where it actually solved a problem, whereas I can point to hundreds where it certainly and without a doubt made matters worse. The CORRECT course of action is
  14. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    I don't think technological advancements necessarily make a great country. Nazi Germany was one of the most technologically advanced countries of its time, but do we look up to them now? They came up with the jet engine and all sorts of stuff that we pretty much ripped off in order to get the edge in the Cold War later on. But what's more important is that they would've used that technology to perpetuate their ideology.

    Given that, then yeah I'd say that Hitler achieved his dream, and Nazi Germany was one of the greatest nations in history despite its short lifespan. The Soviet Union would be another....great country. Right now, North Korea and Iran probably think of themselves at great countries. But you don't need me to tell you what happens when nations get obsessed with greatness.
  15. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    SpreadtheMuse, it seems a bit unfair to point out pollution given taht while we are reducing it, we still pollute more than the third world... they're catching up. its not as though they're also big polluters compared to us per capita.
  16. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    Yeah, kinda hard to claim the high ground there Boskone when a) China won't sign onto Kyoto because you won't and b) You produce 25% of the world's waste with <5% of the world's population. So, whilst America may be better than alot of countries, you're also the single largest contributor to the world's ill health, bar none. Thanks for ******* it up for the rest of us! :)

    E_S
  17. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    But how much of the world's GDP do we produce?

    Waste vs. population isn't the best metric to use, as it ignores the benefits derived from generating that waste.

    Kimball Kinnison
  18. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    a) China won't sign onto Kyoto because you won't and b) You produce 25% of the world's waste with <5% of the world's population. So, whilst America may be better than alot of countries, you're also the single largest contributor to the world's ill health, bar none. Thanks for ******* it up for the rest of us!

    It's also a factor that can be looked at in different ways.

    For example, in comparing the concept of "energy intensity" (a term which compares energy consumption per dollar of gross domestic product) Canda is actually the highest (or lowest efficiency):

    [image=http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/canenergyintens.gif]

    For 2001, Canada's "energy intensity" stood at stood at 15,029 Btu per $1995 in purchasing power parity (PPP), which is higher than the US, Germany, France, Italy, UK, and Japan.

    Again, comparing per capita energy consumption, Canada is again the highest:

    [image=http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/canpercap.gif]

    Canada's energy consumption per person is 403 million BTU. For comparison, the US's rate is 342 million BTU.

    The rate of per capita carbon emissions is statistically the same for the US and Canda. (5.2 and 5.5 metric tons respectively.)

    The main reason that seems to be repeated is that Canada hasn't kept up with environmental modernization like the other Western nations have. Traditionally, Canada has relied on a low population density to keep its overall numbers down, but as Canadians as a whole adopt modern lifestyles, the environmental controls aren't in place.

    It's why, despite ratifying Kyoto, Canada has been unable to meet the requirements.

    HERE

    On March 31, 2006, environment minister Rona Ambrose told a Vancouver audience that since ratifying Kyoto, Canada's "greenhouse gas emissions are up by 24 per cent ? a far cry from the previous government's commitment to meet a target six per cent below the 1990 levels."

    And besides, Australia refused to ratify Kyoto as well... [face_mischief] It's not that Howard is against the idea, it's that Kyoto is simply a poor agreement as it exists.
  19. Dark_Nexium Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2007
    star 1
    Well in order to understand this you must know why a person in the first place can develop this way of thinking.The answer is through experience with environment and society.People think the way they do because of other people or because of past experiences.Nationalism is another reason why Americans (such as myself) think the way we do and is same for most countries who use any form of propaganda.But many other people have touched on this such as Green Day on American Idiot and how they mention the American media pretty much feeds any knowledge an American has.Even though I know many might wag a finger for me saying this but some Americans are in fact sheep and the media is the shepard.
  20. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 8
    They're talking about signing it now, as it's actually a popular issue, but they're wrong to have not. Wrong, because we are selling coal to China and we know - something you guys haven't figured out, and the bilateral relationships reflect this - that China doesn't respond well to "Do as I say, not as I do" sentiments. We are, quite frankly, the Western country with the best and healthiest relationship with China; you are the Western country with the leadership skills and history. We should be using these to, via Kyoto (Which I've said, in this place for years, was symbolic only), shape China and India's emissions targets positively. Otherwise, China will rival the US for pollutive waste output and you'll both drag us all down with you.

    E_S
  21. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    Very good stuff so far.

    I agree that the US is made a better nation by our economy, open competition of our companies and also of our employees, I don't think that that is what makes the US the best.

    In simple terms (and really, do I operate any other way? ;) ):

    While I haven't looked into all laws of all nations, I do know that the US is the only country that I know of left on the face of the Earth that allows me to ride without a helmet. For some unknown reason the governments of the rest of the world seem to deem it a societal hazard for me to swing my leg over the saddle of my Sportster wearing only the latest pair of popular sunglasses on my head.

    Understand that this alone isn't why the US is my favorite place on the entire planet, but merely a taste of why.

    [face_flag]
  22. LostOnHoth Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2000
    star 5
    The reason is that in Australia we need your tax dollars to fund our welfare society and so if you fall off your motorbike without a helmet and kill yourself then we are deprived of those tax dollars - the same reasoning applies to seatbelts and speed limits.
  23. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    Mandatory helmet laws actually increase the medical costs associated with motorcycle accidents. Basically, fatalities drop significantly, but the number of people with severe head injuries that put them into vegetative states increases significantly.

    In other words, there's basically a segment of the motorcycle accident spectrum where a rider will be killed if he's not wearing a helmet, but if he's wearing a helmet, the helmet will keep you technically alive, but in need of long-term care. As much as it sucks to acknowledge this, it's definitely preferable from a financial perspective for someone to get his or her head smashed in totally and be pronounced DoA then to have their head smashed just enough to leave enough behind to keep someone hooked up to a ventilator for years.
  24. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    Therein is why I don't like the idea of the gov't in charge of health care. Once its "their" money involved, then behavior gets legislated.
  25. Kimball_Kinnison Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Ender, you know that isn't the case.

    Quite simply, Kyoto was a Kobayashi Maru scenario for the US. Consider the two likely outcomes:

    1) The US doesn't sign. The US is widely criticized for doing nothing about the environment, and used as an excuse not to do anything. (More or less what is happening now.)
    2) The US signs, and fails to meet the agreed levels. Again, the US would be widely criticized for "not doing enough", and would be used as an excuse not to do anything.

    The third possible outcome (the US signs and meets or exceeds its agreed levels) is extremely improbable, considering that almost no western nation has been able to meet their goals under the treaty (last I checked).

    Kimball Kinnison
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