My defense of George Lucas...

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by darthnuisance, Aug 13, 2002.

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  1. SWfan2002 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2002
    star 4
    there is no denying that the Star Wars saga in its prequel form feels dated.

    Perhaps that's because SW takes place A LONG TIME AGO, and GL has made the PT in the style of a 1930's or 40's film.

  2. darthnuisance Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2002
    star 3
    I agree SWfan2002. I think this is a testament to GL's attention to detail and passion for autenticity.
  3. TheDarkSkull Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 3
    What makes you think that, AL? CGI tech power is improving every day. And with being able to add it in and out of films; you could add as much battle scenes and wild creatures as you want to the OT, enough to make the PT not such far far far away galaxy.
  4. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    We know how the story ends. Besides, once it was marketed as a return to form in TPM, it was going to fade very quickly anyway.
  5. Import_Jedi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 6
    We know how the story ends. Besides, once it was marketed as a return to form in TPM, it was going to fade very quickly anyway.

    Sure, we know how the story ends...but if I knew Lucas personally I wouldn't dissuade him from making the prequels when he first came up with the idea.

    It's like any other creator of a medium... That artist knows that he or she would want to return to a previous work if it's still incomplete, and they have the right to do so.

    If other people don't like that creator's work, fine. Big deal. Ultimately, PROPS TO THE CREATOR because he/she succeeded in finally fulfilling his/her vision.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure I missed the mark on what AL was trying to get at, but oh well. ;)
  6. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    The point is it didn't. The world of 2002 is far different form the world of late 70s and early 80s and for better or worse, there is no denying that the Star Wars saga in its prequel form feels dated.

    Wait a minute, so you're saying that the new films are consistent with the originals? The more I try to keep up with basher logic the more confused I get.
  7. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    Gee golly gosh, what a fun romp we have here!

    I see without surprise that the ugly side of "gusherism" has once again emerged from the rich earth that is the AOTC forum. Once again a legion of apologists and agreement-addicts have descended upon the "minority" that dares voice the slightest of criticisms, making fandom safe from the "basher" menace. At least this thread was straightforward about it, rather than trying to trap people into intelligent discussion before unleashing the anti-"basher" brigade.

    Sorry to tell you, folks, but a large portion of the fanbase does not agree with your opinions. What a terrible crime. We say things that you don't agree with. How awful. Guess what? The dozen different flavors of the "Bashers aren't real fans and need to shut up" tirades have gotten very, very old. Say what you will about the "bashers", but I have never witnessed "bashers" engaging in the kind of conduct that spews forth from this forum's "gusher" contingent on a daily basis, where entire threads are devoted to tearing down the "bashers" with hyena-like zeal. I loved AOTC, but I am also perfectly willing to discuss it's aparrent flaws with someone who did not. Maybe it's time some of you started asking yourselves why you are not willing to do the same?

    Long before I came to these forums, it was decided that those of us who have criticisms about where Lucas is taking the saga would be labelled "bashers". That's fine. I don't think it really bothers most of us, and if hurling that label at anyone who does not share your opinion makes you feel better then go for it. However, there are a number of offensive misconceptions that go along with the label that need to die a quick death. "Bashers" don't "get" what Lucas is doing? Yes we do. "Bashers" are "afraid" of new ideas? No we're not. "Bashers" can't see past their own preconceptions? Yes we can. "Bashers" have unrealistic expectations for the Prequels? No we don't. We've been fans a long time (some of us have been fans since 1977), and our opinions are just as valid as anyone else's. We aren't going anywhere. Move on.
  8. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Wait a minute, so you're saying that the new films are consistent with the originals? The more I try to keep up with basher logic the more confused I get.

    No. The fact that they are still chasing a story line which was ultimately resolved in 1980 takes a lot out of them, including the joy of spontaneity and surprise.

    The climax is long gone and all we need to know about the back story was made clear in the OT. The prequels, and especially AOTC, seem like footnotes emerging from afterthoughts.
  9. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Say what you will about the "bashers", but I have never witnessed "bashers" engaging in the kind of conduct that spews forth from this forum's "gusher" contingent on a daily basis...

    That's because bashers can say the following things without fear of being banned:

    "George Lucas sucks."
    "Lucas is a moron."
    "Lucas can't tell his bum from the front of a camera."
    "Lucas is a hack without an ounce of creativity left in him."

    And so on. Frankly, if any of the gushers talked about other forum members the way bashers talk about Lucas, they'd be banned so fast it'd make your head spin.

    And you know what? I'm personally sick and tired of chronic negativity being praised as "enlightened" or "honest".
  10. TheDarkSkull Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 3
    You can't expect to say an opinion without someone arguing with it.
  11. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    The climax is long gone and all we need to know about the back story was made clear in the OT.

    In that case, why did you even bother seeing the prequel films knowing full well they were going to flesh out the saga's back story? There's that screwy basher logic again.
  12. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    sick enough to go away?
  13. TheDarkSkull Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 3
    I don't see how arguing with bashers is wrong? When a lot of the times they attack or bash us. Are just to sit there? I'm against people arguing with "Lucas SUX" or "AOTC KICKS @$$ PERIOD!". But arguing with an intelligent remark, there's nothing wrong with that. At least IMO anyway.
  14. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    "And so on. Frankly, if any of the gushers talked about other forum members the way bashers talk about Lucas, they'd be banned so fast it'd make your head spin."

    Last time I checked, Lucas was not a member of these forums. Last time I checked, the majority of "bashing" was limited to Lucas' work, and when an artist places his work in front of a paying audience he/she leaves that work open to criticism. That's how it works.

    "I don't see how arguing with bashers is wrong?"

    Arguing with "bashers" is fine. The condescending attitudes I outlined in my above post are not. The organized attempts to bully the "bashers" out of a thread are not. The dime-store attempts to psycholanalyze what a "basher's" "real" motivations are are not.
  15. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    I see it because I am a Star Wars fan and because all my life I have wanted to see how the Jedi Purge, Clone Wars etc. would be realised. The fact that they were done so in such a pedestrian fashion hammers it home that we know how the story ends. If handled correctly, this inherent problem would not have been as prevalent as it is now.

    And I like TPM btw, my problem is with AOTC. I was a TPM gusher long before you arrived my young newbie. (Now that was patronising! :) )
  16. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    The problem is you blame EVERYTHING you feel is wrong with the saga on GL and give him NO credit for all the things he has done right.

    ANH: GL Basher "ANH was only good cuz GL had people around him helping him."
    ESB: GL Basher "ESB was the best movie because of Kasdan and Kirshner. GL had nothing to do with it."
    ROTJ & the PT: GL Basher "They sucked because Lucas was more in control."
  17. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4
    "they are still chasing a story line which was ultimately resolved in 1980"

    Wait a minute. 1980? When EMPIRE came out the story was resolved? I thought the story was resolved in 1983 when ROTJ showed Vader redeemed by his son, he died and the Empire along with the Emperor, bit the dust.

    Yeah, it's pretty clear a lot of the bashers harbor a deep personal resentment of GL on some level that I can't relate to. He's just a guy making movies. He's fulfilling his vision and he's entitled to do that.

    I really think, and I've said this before, that what really fuels a lot of the negativity toward Lucas is plain old human jealousy. His success really pushes a lot of people's buttons who think they know a lot about movies. Oh well, that's human nature. They're entitled to their opinions and Lucas is entitled to totally ignore them.
  18. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    Last time I checked, Lucas was not a member of these forums.

    Oh, so only people on these forums deserve respect? Strange.
  19. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    Karma, it was supposed to be 1980s, and I am sure you knew that anyway.

    Durwood, you only quote the first line from that guy's post though he answers your queries against him in the latter statements of the very same one.

    Slightly insincere, don't you think?
  20. Durwood Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 5
    I was a TPM gusher long before you arrived my young newbie.

    So you were a Jedi Council forum member since before TPM was released? During the production of Attack Of The Clones I let my account lapse as I wanted to avoid spoilers, and after I saw the movie I reregistered. Would you like some salt with that foot?

    [Edit] I reregistered under a new name, so searching the archives for posts from "Durwood" would be fruitless. And, no, I won't tell you my old screen name. Protect the innocent and all that.
  21. TheDarkSkull Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2002
    star 3
    Juding people by their age or years in service doesn't mean that they are weaker in mind than you.
  22. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4
    "Karma, it was supposed to be 1980s, and I am sure you knew that anyway."

    Actually, no, I didn't. Your post said 1980 so I assumed that's what you meant. I'm a wonderfully gifted individual, but mindreading is beyond me. You say EVERYTHING on these boards as if it was beyond reproach and when you make a mistake I'm supposed to KNOW what you actually meant?

    I love the way you phrase that, "I am sure you knew that anyway." YOU ARE ALWAYS SURE OF EVERYTHING AREN'T YOU?
  23. AgentCoop Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2002
    star 4
    "The problem is you blame EVERYTHING you feel is wrong with the saga on GL and give him NO credit for all the things he has done right."

    Who to blame but GL for the flaws? As you all keep telling us, it is HIS saga, made HIS way. So if something is amiss, who should I blame?

    I give GL plenty of credit for what he does right. Up until the SEs came out I thought the man could do no wrong. But in my opinion he is a better filmmaker when he allows the ideas of others to have an influence on the saga.

    "ANH: GL Basher "ANH was only good cuz GL had people around him helping him.""

    No, actually, ANH was good because GL was still passionate about the story he was telling.

    "ESB: GL Basher "ESB was the best movie because of Kasdan and Kirshner. GL had nothing to do with it.""

    Kasdan and Kirshner were hand-picked by Lucas. If they were good enough for him, then why aren't they good enough for you?

    GL Gusher: "Kishner had nothing to do with how great ESB was" Then explain how Kirshner was able to get better performances out of a B-level actor like Mark Hamill and a coked-out Carrie Fisher than GL was able to get out of a truly brilliant actor like Liam Neeson.

    "ROTJ & the PT: GL Basher "They sucked because Lucas was more in control."

    I never said any of those films sucked. They just aren't as good. And I did love AOTC. But I pretty much agree with the meat of that last statement.
  24. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
    "ANH: GL Basher "ANH was only good cuz GL had people around him helping him."
    ESB: GL Basher "ESB was the best movie because of Kasdan and Kirshner. GL had nothing to do with it."
    ROTJ & the PT: GL Basher "They sucked because Lucas was more in control."

    close foxbat but innacurate. i never said lucas had nothing to do with ESB.
  25. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    So you were a Jedi Council forum member since before TPM was released? During the production of Attack Of The Clones I let my account lapse as I wanted to avoid spoilers, and after I saw the movie I reregistered. Would you like some salt with that foot?

    Yes I was on the boards way before TPM was released; August 98 if I recall, which makes my tenure four years and me a very, very sad person.

    Karma, I love you more than anything. Will you marry me?



    please.......
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