My Man Zahn

How'd I get into this conversation?

 

because when you are not around, the place is a worse place

 

"See, this is exactly what I was talking about! The male has a tendancie for the more agressive, ADVERSARIAL approach to argument."

Good God! And women claim men are sexist! You should rename this thread "stereotype city"!!!!!!

 

The main problem with Mr. Zahn's statement that it would be hard to write Superman without Kryptonite is that people wrote Superman for ten years before Kryptonite first appeared. The heavy sales of Superman mags during the Golden Age of comics demonstrated quite clearly that kids didn't need Kryptonite to find Superman stories exciting.

Kryptonite was used heavily in the 1950s and 1960s, when Superman was depicted as being so powerful that he could (literally) toss planets around. In that period, Superman could be neutralized by any two-bit crook with a piece of Green K. Certainly Kryptonite helped make Kal-El vulnerable, but Kryptonite began to be used so heavily that it became a crutch.

DC Comics eventually tried to move away from this over-reliance on Kryptonite. In the early 1970s, Dennis O' Neil scripted a series of stories in which all Kryptonite on Earth was turned to iron, but Superman's powers were also reduced by half. Unfortunately, that still made Superman extremely powerful, and after Denny O' Neil left, Kryptonite was quickly re-introduced into Superman stories, even if wasn't used as often as before.

In 1986, DC revamped the Superman mythos and tried again to reduce Superman's powers. With John Byrne now scripting the Man of Steel, Superman became much weaker than his incarnations of the past 40 years, and closer to the original, power-limited creation of Jerry Siegle and Joe Shuster. Kryptonite remained part of the story (though only Green K has survived). However, in current stories, Kryptonite is only used infrequently. In his adventures as Superman, Clark faces opponents who either rival his power, challenge his intellect, or exploit another weakness of the Man of Steel, like magic.

The relevance of this history to the Jedi is that writers can provide challenges for the Jedi by taking one (or more) of three routes:

1. Depict the Jedi as not being as powerful as some authors have written them.



2. Provide them with foes that either rival their power or exploit a different weakness.



3. Use a form of Jedi "kryptonite" like the ysalamari.

As I see it, the editors and authors of the NJO have chosen Options #1 and #2. The Jedi are portrayed as less powerful, and the Yuuzhan Vong both rival the power of the Jedi and can exploit a weakness of the Jedi. Tim Zahn did the same. The power of Thrawn, lay in his intellect, while Joruus was powerful in the dark side.

The problem with #3 is the same that exists with Kryptonite. In principle, any two-bit hood could use ysalamari (or an equivalent plot device) to neutralize a Jedi. Tim Zahn wove around the problem of ysalamari becoming a plot crutch by making the critters rare and difficult to obtain. The NJO creators have fortunately avoided making ysalamari a major element in the storyline.

 

Over the past 2-3 days, I've been rereading the Thrawn Trilogy. As I've done so, I have been paying attention to how the Ysalimiri are used, in part because of this thread. Can anyone point out to me exactly how they are used as a crutch by Zahn? So far (I'm in the middle of TLC), the only times I've really seen them used are:

1) On Wayland against C'baoth.
2) On the Wild Karrde
3) On Myrkr, their home planet.
4) My Mara on Jomark to get Luke
5) On the Chimaera to TRY and stop Luke, Mara and Karrde (only mentioned).
6) On the bridge of the Chimaera against C'baoth.
7) On Wayland, to aid in the cloning.

To me, these uses don't seem like a crutch. They seem like a logical use of a creature with this sort of ability. By far, the biggest use is against C'baoth and for the cloning, which are major plot elements.

Is there something I'm missing here? It doesn't seem reasonable to me to claim that it is a crutch if it is not being used as a crutch.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Uhm..why create a creature wit that sort of ability at all?

To use asa crutch.

 

The only logical use of a crutch is to lean on it. That's what crutches are for, and that's what people do with 'em.

A crutch can be really important for holding someone up (kinda like flying buttresses, actually). But an important crutch is still just a crutch.

Zahn used the ysalamiri to hold up his plot. They were crutches. Important crutches, sure. Even crucial crutches.

But a crutch is a crutch.

 

By that same reasoning, you could say that a villian is a crutch, after all, why create a villian if not to use him?

Just because something is a plot device does not make it a crutch.

To quote Websters.com:

crutch (krch)
n.
1) A staff or support used by the physically injured or disabled as an aid in walking, usually designed to fit under the armpit and often used in pairs.
2) A forked leg rest on a sidesaddle.
3) A device used for assistance or support; a prop: a mnemonic crutch.
The crotch of a person or an animal.
4) A forked device or part.

His stories used ysalamiri as a plot element (or device). That does not mean that the story was flawed because he had to create something new for it. J.R.R. Tolkien invented Hobbits for the Lord of the Rings (and the Hobbit). Were hobbits a crutch? No. Were hobbits crucial to his story? Yes. Same thing with ysalamiri.

Kimball Kinnison

 

Good God! And women claim men are sexist! You should rename this thread "stereotype city"!!!!

It's not a stereotype, it's a statistic. A sterotype would be men just like to argue or (to borrow a phrase from Fight Club): they don't listen they just wait for their turn to talk.

I stated that the majority is prone to the adversarial approach.

 

hate to sound like this, and Im only doing it because you left the door open, but...


Typical woman, having to start saying "typical man" or similar

 

Ysalamiri...while they might have gotten Zahn out of some pretty sticky situations, are no better or worse than any other plot element that has shown up in ANY SW book. How many books has something really conincidental or lucky shown up? I mean, we could start calling EVERY new element that comes up that weakens a Jedi's power and forces him/her to use brains instead of brawn a crutch.

And come on people...dont gender stereotype!!

 

I mean, we could start calling EVERY new element that comes up that weakens a Jedi's power and forces him/her to use brains instead of brawn a crutch.

Such as what? What other traps have "weakened a Jedi's power"? We've had some designed to compensate for it, in another of Zahn's books, but none that just blatantly strip it away...

 

No traps persay, but if you think about amphistaffs...heck, the Vong as a species being black holes in the force...those weaken a jedis power.

and anyway...they found their way around ysalamiri...jsut as they found their way around the vong.

The force always wins out.